[WaM14gunner]

No doubt been dealt with before but with new members perhaps a revisit.

In particular with the M14 rifle, is it held by most that single loading is likely to produce better groups than when thru the loaded magazine? I seem to notice a tendency in my LRB for the first shot loaded from the mag at full load velocity, no "riding the bolt" part way, can sometimes cause that first round to be out of the group where shots 2,3 and 4 or 5 might go. Not every time but often enough to annoy the bejabbers out of me. Thanks.

 

[nf1e]

The main reason for my single loading is that my accuracy handloads are too long to fit in a magazine. I like to seat bullets .010 from contact with the lands.

Using factory ammo like GMM which is back .070 to .080 from the lands it makes very little if any difference whether loading is done single or from the mag.

Semper Fi
Art

 

[POLACK]

since the bolt group was designed for the round to slip in underneath when it gets stripped from the mag,won't that damage the extractor,and/or,possibly cause a slam fire?

 

[WaM14gunner]

When I say single load I don't mean hand fed into the chamber, I mean loaded singly from the magazine one at a time, or as some do ride the round into the chamber more softly with less bolt force but still fed off the top of the mag.

 

[swagbrdr]

The main reason for my single loading is that my accuracy handloads are too long to fit in a magazine. I like to seat bullets .010 from contact with the lans.

Using factory ammo like GMM which is back .070 to .080 from the lans it makes very little if any difference whether loading is done single or from the mag.

Semper Fi
Art

^^^this would be the only reason I would fire single shots^^^

If you wanted to try berger bullets, you would have to go this route as they traditionally don't like to jump to the lans.

 

[nf1e]

^^^this would be the only reason I would fire single shots^^^

If you wanted to try berger bullets, you would have to go this route as they traditionally don't like to jump to the lans.

I was using Berger 135 FB until they stopped making them and have started using Berger 150 FB recently.

I do hook the round into the mag for single loading. The tip protrudes above the front of the mag.

The best set up I have found for this is the Bula Defense Systems XM21 Version II because I can single load from the left side under the scope without breaking position.

[URL=http://s1180.photobucket.com/user/nf1e/media/IMG_0498_zpsamcy5fxl.jpg.html][/URL]

Semper Fi
Art

 

[4Quangs]

When shooting groups, I always single feed my handloads. I don't know if it helps or not, I've never tried loading the magazine.

Mostly because I always break my position between rounds just to pace my shots at a minute each. That seems to keep the barrel temperature fairly constant and helps me maintain my concentration when shooting.

I forgot to add that I retrieve my expended casing for each round and return it to its position in the cartridge box. In this way, I can determine if any outliers may have been case related.

 

[WaM14gunner]

When shooting groups, I always single feed my handloads. I don't know if it helps or not, I've never tried loading the magazine.

Mostly because I always break my position between rounds just to pace my shots at a minute each. That seems to keep the barrel temperature fairly constant and helps me maintain my concentration when shooting.

I forgot to add that I retrieve my expended casing for each round and return it to its position in the cartridge box. In this way, I can determine if any outliers may have been case related.

Do you soft load the rounds or just give them full bolt thrust?

 

[4Quangs]

Push the single into the magazine, release the bolt catch and let her fly home. Two reasons: safety first and the rifle absorbs the shock of seating exactly the same with every round.

 

[WaM14gunner]

That's how I do it too. Thanks.

 

[JEFFJP_N_JJ]

I have not tried 'long loading', single loading yet... I just load 5 rounds in my 10 round magazine reloaded to max magazine length and try to get in a position where the recoil puts be somewhat back on target for the next shot.

 

[Samuel Seeley]

I like to seat bullets .010 from contact with the lans.

Using factory ammo like GMM which is back .070 to .080 from the lans

I always thought it was "lands."ICONWINK

 

[JEFFJP_N_JJ]

"lans" is right before "groovy"... And some of us land hard

 

[lysander]

No doubt been dealt with before but with new members perhaps a revisit.

In particular with the M14 rifle, is it held by most that single loading is likely to produce better groups than when thru the loaded magazine? I seem to notice a tendency in my LRB for the first shot loaded from the mag at full load velocity, no "riding the bolt" part way, can sometimes cause that first round to be out of the group where shots 2,3 and 4 or 5 might go. Not every time but often enough to annoy the bejabbers out of me. Thanks.

There is a reason for that, and it depends on how close to 100% full the case is. Tests have shown that there are small, but measurable, velocity differences depending on how far away from the flash hole the bulk of the propellant is. The closer to the flash hole, the more propellant ignited initially the higher the pressure. Allowing the bolt to slam the round into the chamber seats the propellant at the base of the bullet.

Feeding the first round from the magazine duplicates (better) the feeding of subsequent rounds. The thing is, everything needs to be as consistent as possible.

If you place the round in the chamber and ride the bolt home, that's fine, as long as you do all of the rounds that way.

 

[nf1e]

I always thought it was "lands."ICONWINK

Not if you live in la la lan like me. Humor
I edited my post to keep all the proof readers happy.

 

[Doc]

A couple reason to single load when testing or shooting groups.
By single loading I mean (as has been stated above) to slip a single round down into the mag and then pull the op rod enough to release it and let it slam home --- doing that lets everything slam to battery (hopefully the same way each time). Letting the bolt ease forward is not the way to do it.
Doing this - lets you practice for slow fire where the rule is to load and fire 1 round at a time (if you are a match shooter). If you are not a match shooter and shooting to test loads (groups) it slows the cadence a little and can help you develop a rhythm and make notes between shoots et cetera.
As far as the question: Is a 10 (or 5) shot group smaller if fired by loading 1 round at a time, or simply loading the mag and shooting the entire group from the mag. While I have not conducted this exact test, with a sufficiently long enough string of groups to be statistically valid, I believe there would be no statistical difference between the two methods where everything was equal except the method of loading....... just IMO.

 

[swagbrdr]

A couple reason to single load when testing or shooting groups.
By single loading I mean (as has been stated above) to slip a single round down into the mad and then pull the op rod enough to release it and let it slam home --- doing that lets everything slam to battery (hopefully the same way each time). Letting the bolt ease forward is not the way to do it.
Doing this - lets you practice for slow fire where the rule is to load and fire 1 round at a time (if you are a match shooter). If you are not a match shooter and shooting to test loads (groups) it slows the cadence a little and can help you develop a rhythm and makes notes between shoots et cetera.
As far as the question: Is a 10 (or 5) shot group smaller if fired by loading 1 round at a time, or simply loading the mag and shooting the entire group from the mag. While I have not conducted this exact test, with a sufficiently long enough string of groups to be statistically valid, I believe there would be no statistical difference between the two methods where everything was equal except the method of loading....... just IMO.

Agreed. I just don't see the difference as the operation is the same if every round has been stripped from the magazine. So, by the rational being discussed here, logic suggests your first round should always pull somewhere different than the other 19 rounds. None of my auto loading firearms do this...whether it's a M1, AR-15, M1A or my 1911s. I either have strong grouping from the get go or I don't. When I don't, it's not a great load and I keeping testing.

If someone can show me some empirical evidence to prove me wrong, please do so. I've never seen an article that mentions this theory nor have I heard about it before this thread.

The bottom line is the M1A is a magazine fed battle rifle. I test my loads in the rifle as it would be used in the field.

 

[Instructor]

Single loading for Slow Fire/Prone I push the base of the round into the magazine enough to hold it in, release bolt and fire. A "trick" used at times is to take a magazine that has given you problems, fill it with lead enough that only one round will snap in, works fine and that extra weight does steady the rifle in prone/sling position as well as off hand. Is that legal, don't know for sure but discovered it one day when helping fellow shooter gather up his gear and picked up one of his magazines and could not believe how heavy it was.
He smiled and explained what he had done. Offered to do one for me, but did not do it.

 

[Pvt. Joker]

Somethin to ponder................................

Not if you live in la la lan like me. Humor
I edited my post to keep all the proof readers happy.

Is that like the old Men at Work tune
" I come from a "LAN" downunder ? BIGTHUMPUP




JOKER OLIVEHELME

 

[4Quangs]

Agreed. I just don't see the difference as the operation is the same if every round has been stripped from the magazine. So, by the rational being discussed here, logic suggests your first round should always pull somewhere different than the other 19 rounds. None of my auto loading firearms do this...whether it's a M1, AR-15, M1A or my 1911s. I either have strong grouping from the get go or I don't. When I don't, it's not a great load and I keeping testing.

If someone can show me some empirical evidence to prove me wrong, please do so. I've never seen an article that mentions this theory nor have I heard about it before this thread.

The bottom line is the M1A is a magazine fed battle rifle. I test my loads in the rifle as it would be used in the field.

Many hand loaders do not crimp their rounds; in fact many leave the necks on the case expanded so the neck tension on the bullet is very low. The rifle's recoil is strong enough to cause the bullet to shift its location in the case resulting in differing OAL of the cartridge. The more shots fired, the larger the difference can be.

Additionally, the strength of the recoil will vary according to the powder charge of the just fired cartridge. This will will add/reduce the recoil's impact on the rounds remaining in the magazine.

Your overall point is sound; when shooting crimp military ammo, the accuracy of the rifle will vary somewhat, but it has no chance of being as consistent or as accurate as when shooting hand loads.