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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My rear sight aperture has ~.030 movement right or left from center. I feel this will cause random shot patterns, and I'd like to remove the slack.

I've searched and read a number of threads discussing alternative fixes.

I think the Smith Enterprise NM sight would be excessive for my Scout, but have been considering the Springfield Armory M1A Rifle Match Sight Kit MA5004 as a compromise http://www.opticsplanet.com/springf...rce=cse&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=connexity

My question is does the aperture that comes with this kit require honing when installing? If it doesn't, was it hand-fitted to have "0" slop? Since my main goal is reducing aperture random movement, I wouldn't buy this kit if it doesn't address that issue.
Thanks
Roger
 

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My rear sight aperture has ~.030 movement right or left from center. I feel this will cause random shot patterns, and I'd like to remove the slack.

I've searched and read a number of threads discussing alternative fixes.

I think the Smith Enterprise NM sight would be excessive for my Scout, but have been considering the Springfield Armory M1A Rifle Match Sight Kit MA5004 as a compromise http://www.opticsplanet.com/springf...rce=cse&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=connexity

My question is does the aperture that comes with this kit require honing when installing? If it doesn't, was it hand-fitted to have "0" slop? Since my main goal is reducing aperture random movement, I wouldn't buy this kit if it doesn't address that issue.
Thanks
Roger
Post a want to buy in the PX here for a USGI M1 Garand or M14 Rear sight. For around 90$ you can score one.

Here's how a USGI rear sight will work
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovrAzjrqPDs[/ame]
 

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My rear sight aperture has ~.030 movement right or left from center. I feel this will cause random shot patterns, and I'd like to remove the slack.

I've searched and read a number of threads discussing alternative fixes.

I think the Smith Enterprise NM sight would be excessive for my Scout, but have been considering the Springfield Armory M1A Rifle Match Sight Kit MA5004 as a compromise http://www.opticsplanet.com/springf...rce=cse&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=connexity

My question is does the aperture that comes with this kit require honing when installing? If it doesn't, was it hand-fitted to have "0" slop? Since my main goal is reducing aperture random movement, I wouldn't buy this kit if it doesn't address that issue.
Thanks
Roger
Here's one

http://m14forum.com/px/215409-reduced-beautiful-rear-sight.html
 

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My rear sight aperture has ~.030 movement right or left from center. I feel this will cause random shot patterns, and I'd like to remove the slack.

I've searched and read a number of threads discussing alternative fixes.

I think the Smith Enterprise NM sight would be excessive for my Scout, but have been considering the Springfield Armory M1A Rifle Match Sight Kit MA5004 as a compromise http://www.opticsplanet.com/springf...rce=cse&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=connexity

My question is does the aperture that comes with this kit require honing when installing? If it doesn't, was it hand-fitted to have "0" slop? Since my main goal is reducing aperture random movement, I wouldn't buy this kit if it doesn't address that issue.
Thanks
Roger
Any and all "National Match" apertures should come with an oversized rack that requires fitting to your sight base. There is no way to "hand fit" a rack without having the base it is going into.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for the input; I appreciate the help.
If I were able to buy a gi nm sight for $100, I'd jump on it, as would many others, l'm sure.
As soon as I determan the existence of a detent spring hole in my receiver, I'll
Go with the SAI mm kit. Of course, if some one offers a GI NM sight for $150, I'll
Go for that.
Roger
 

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There are cheaper and easier options out there if you are willing to put in some work.

Replacing the sight cover does NOT help. It masks the problem but does not solve it. THe sight cover is a spring that pushes the aperture rack down, so it won't flop, but it does nothing the constrain its movement side to side, so you will still experience windage drift.

I've never been a fan of peening the sight base, however I am a fan of peening the rack itself. Get a rack, which is only a few dollar part so it won't hurt if you screw it up, and hook the tongue that sticks out the side over the edge of an anvil. Get a center punch and punch a series of marks 1/16" apart into the tops of both tongues. Each punch mark will cause the edge of the tongue to bulge slightly, resulting in a tighter fit.

Another approach, though slightly riskier, is to get JB Weld or similar epoxy. Wax the daylights out of the rack, to make sure it won't stick, and lay a thin bead of JB Weld inside the sight base, then insert the rack and let it dry. I'd pull the sight base off the rifle before trying this, so if you do glue it together you don't have to pound on the rifle to get it apart.

Third option is to send me an email, and I'll send you a small block of EDPM foam, which you can fit inside the sight, under the spring cover. It will place pressure on the rack and on the sight base in one direction only. I'm certain I have pictures of this somewhere, and likely posted them in an old thread, but cannot find them on the laptop I have at Camp Perry this week.

The final option is to use a NM rubber band, that you wrap around the aperture, and loop around the windage knob.
 

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So replacing a worn out flattened spring cover with a new one with a strong rib does not fix the issue???

Peening the sight base is a USGI Arsenal fix , if it was good enough for them Its good enough for me. Simple easy fix
 

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That video was interesting but I have never done it the way it was shown.
I move the windage to the right before taking it apart for a start.
I like peening the rack to tighten things up with a standard sight, but a new NM rack and aperature is my preference. A little stoning and if done right there will be no side to side slop. I also like to grease the sight pocket before re assembly. I usually set the cover in the rear grove first ant pop the front down and in.
Art's foam on one side of the sight base works great too.

Semper Fi
Art
 

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So replacing a worn out flattened spring cover with a new one with a strong rib does not fix the issue???

Peening the sight base is a USGI Arsenal fix , if it was good enough for them Its good enough for me. Simple easy fix
The spring cover only applies downward pressure on the rack. If there is side-to-side movement between the rack and the sight base, it will not eliminate this. Pinching the rack downwards more with a new spring cover will make it less 'floppy' so it is harder to see the problem, but the sight base can still move side to side.
 

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Thanks for the input; I appreciate the help.
If I were able to buy a gi nm sight for $100, I'd jump on it, as would many others, l'm sure.
As soon as I determan the existence of a detent spring hole in my receiver, I'll
Go with the SAI mm kit. Of course, if some one offers a GI NM sight for $150, I'll
Go for that.
Roger
You'll most likely ware out those SAI Sights. They are cast MIM junk.
 

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Thanks for the input; I appreciate the help.
If I were able to buy a gi nm sight for $100, I'd jump on it, as would many others, l'm sure.
As soon as I determan the existence of a detent spring hole in my receiver, I'll
Go with the SAI mm kit. Of course, if some one offers a GI NM sight for $150, I'll
Go for that.
Roger
The SAI kit most likely comes with a standard height front sight. Your Scout rifle should already have a tall National Match front sight already on it. You can use the one in the kit if you were to install a gas lock front sight base, otherwise you won't need it.

How about taking out your sight rack and measuring the width. Maybe one of us on this forum has one that is slightly larger, possibly even USGI. It is worth a try. RNGR2
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
[I said:
KurtC;1887346]Any and all "National Match" apertures should come with an oversized rack that requires fitting to your sight base. There is no way to "hand fit" a rack without having the base it is going into[/I].
My thoughts, exactly; just needed confirmation.

KurtC: "How about taking out your sight rack and measuring the width. Maybe one of us on this forum has one that is slightly larger, possibly even USGI. It is worth a try"

Great idea--I'm on it.

The Shooter: "You'll most likely ware out those SAI Sights. They are cast MIM junk."

Unfortunately, I have to agree with you. I guess if I'm going to spend $40-$60 for an aperture, I'd like to spend a little more and get 1/2-MOA capability. That's why the interest in the SAI kit--$128 gets me a new aperture and 1/2-minute windage. Of course, I don't need the front sight as the Scout comes with a NM front sight.

nf1e: "I like peening the rack to tighten things up with a standard sight, but a new NM rack and aperture is my preference. A little stoning and if done right there will be no side to side slop."


Exactly my thinking.

ShootingSight: "Another approach, though slightly riskier, is to get JB Weld or similar epoxy. Wax the daylights out of the rack, to make sure it won't stick, and lay a thin bead of JB Weld inside the sight base, then insert the rack and let it dry. I'd pull the sight base off the rifle before trying this, so if you do glue it together you don't have to pound on the rifle to get it apart."

Now this piques my interest. Not sure if a .025 layer of epoxy will hold up under Scouts recoil, and general use, but I may try this just to see; however, I do like the idea of the hooded NM aperture.

ShootingSight: The final option is to use a NM rubber band, that you wrap around the aperture, and loop around the windage knob.

This is probably the "quick and easy" temp fix, but finding a NM grade rubber band could be time consuming as well as exhausting!

Thanks, Guys
Roger
 

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There are cheaper and easier options out there if you are willing to put in some work.

Replacing the sight cover does NOT help. It masks the problem but does not solve it. THe sight cover is a spring that pushes the aperture rack down, so it won't flop, but it does nothing the constrain its movement side to side, so you will still experience windage drift.

I've never been a fan of peening the sight base, however I am a fan of peening the rack itself. Get a rack, which is only a few dollar part so it won't hurt if you screw it up, and hook the tongue that sticks out the side over the edge of an anvil. Get a center punch and punch a series of marks 1/16" apart into the tops of both tongues. Each punch mark will cause the edge of the tongue to bulge slightly, resulting in a tighter fit.

Another approach, though slightly riskier, is to get JB Weld or similar epoxy. Wax the daylights out of the rack, to make sure it won't stick, and lay a thin bead of JB Weld inside the sight base, then insert the rack and let it dry. I'd pull the sight base off the rifle before trying this, so if you do glue it together you don't have to pound on the rifle to get it apart.

Third option is to send me an email, and I'll send you a small block of EDPM foam, which you can fit inside the sight, under the spring cover. It will place pressure on the rack and on the sight base in one direction only. I'm certain I have pictures of this somewhere, and likely posted them in an old thread, but cannot find them on the laptop I have at Camp Perry this week.

The final option is to use a NM rubber band, that you wrap around the aperture, and loop around the windage knob.
Hey Art,

How about producing some apertures that are to USGI spec, except with a NM-type wide rack that folks can fit to their USGI base?

And maybe a fitting service that machines the rack square and parallel and snug in customer-supplied base? DI5
 

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"ShootingSight: "Another approach, though slightly riskier, is to get JB Weld or similar epoxy. Wax the daylights out of the rack, to make sure it won't stick, and lay a thin bead of JB Weld inside the sight base, then insert the rack and let it dry. I'd pull the sight base off the rifle before trying this, so if you do glue it together you don't have to pound on the rifle to get it apart."

Now this piques my interest. Not sure if a .025 layer of epoxy will hold up under Scouts recoil, and general use, but I may try this just to see; however, I do like the idea of the hooded NM aperture."

It will work just fine If you prep the parts properly. I've got parts that are under continuous field testing, some for over 20 years now that are working very well and subject to much more hammering.
Remember that in the case of your sight the recoil forces are actually perpendicular to your epoxy.
Epoxy bedded stocks have the mass of the barreled action working against the surface of the epoxy each time you pull the trigger.
Most needs for rebedding an action are the results of wear from disassembly/reassembly.
I've got two Garrand/M1A sights I did this to back in the 80's. At this point they hold zero better than I do.LOL1
 

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Hey Art,

How about producing some apertures that are to USGI spec, except with a NM-type wide rack that folks can fit to their USGI base?

And maybe a fitting service that machines the rack square and parallel and snug in customer-supplied base? DI5
I'm having similar thoughts - sort of/kind of.

I don't make racks. I have a bunch of USGI NOS that I modify to make my 'as issued' legal reduced apertures, but they have to be USGI width to be allowed.

I buy NM racks that are oversized, but they are already drilled and machined to take the hoods.

There are several options I can think of, and this is not all sequential thinking, but rather random thoughts:

1. I could put these racks on a surface grinder sideways, and take them down to a specific thickness. If you could either measure your base width, I could send you something that fit, or else I could send you a dozen, you pick out the best fit, and send the other 11 back. The latter would obviously require a security deposit.

As an aside, I wonder if I could make a tool that has two curved pieces of metal in it, like an aperture rack that was split in half lengthwise, and had several screws and springs in it, so you could squeeze it, slide it into your base, let it expend, and lock the screws, so you can pull it out and get a caliper on it.

2. I could use NM racks, but solder in a reduced round aperture to make them into non-hooded, non 1/2 MOA apertures. Not sure what good this would do. You would not be exactly USGI aperture, so not 'as issued' legal, nor would you have the hooded sight. Meh, does not seem to be a benefit.

3. I could use NM racks, but tap the hole and screw in an AR sight hood. You would lose the 1/2MOAhood rotation, but would gain the ability to use reduced apertures. I already make reduced aperture NM hoods, so the only thing you would gain is a reduced outside diameter hood, so this could fit into a USGI sight base, rather than having to use a NM sight base (The OD of the NM hood is bigger than the scallop size in the USGI sight bases, so you cannot run the sight all the way down if you just put a NM hood in a USGI base).

Again, all of this in the context of a NM rack that I put in a surface grinder... if we had a good way to match your sight base up to the right width aperture.

At the end of the day, I am a designer, not a gunsmith, so I would not undertake a business model where people send me sight bases and want me to measure and make these parts on a custom basis, one at a time. It would have to be something where I could get a bunch of racks prepped, and people just order what they need.

No conclusions here, but hopefully some ideas for others to build on. I like the idea of a set of calipers with arc-shaped tips that could get in and measure the base width.
 

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"ShootingSight: "Another approach, though slightly riskier, is to get JB Weld or similar epoxy. Wax the daylights out of the rack, to make sure it won't stick, and lay a thin bead of JB Weld inside the sight base, then insert the rack and let it dry. I'd pull the sight base off the rifle before trying this, so if you do glue it together you don't have to pound on the rifle to get it apart."
Similar in concept, Nez uses a brass strip trimmed from a 5.56 stripper clip too shim the rack. Folds the ends of the strip over the edges of the rack and they don't slide/peel off running it up and down.
 

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Similar in concept, Nez uses a brass strip trimmed from a 5.56 stripper clip too shim the rack. Folds the ends of the strip over the edges of the rack and they don't slide/peel off running it up and down.
Ooh! I like. I could get different thicknesses of shim stock, stack them up, and have an EDM shop cut several stacks of 'arcs' that match the arc of the rack. I bet you could superglue it on.
 
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