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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I came across the below video several days ago. In it, he goes through the various sight alignments and sight pictures. When I got into service rifle competitions several years ago, it was recommended that having a six (or sub-six) o'clock hold was optimal. I therefore learned on, and have generally kept to, that hold. But lately I have been playing around a little with a center (or battle) hold. This video puts forth that the center hold is the better.

Just wondering, when shooting at the black bulls, what is your preferred hold and why?

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gyO5QrYzNw[/ame]
 

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Younger eye's generally can take advantage of the 6 o'clock hold better than center hold.
What your experiencing now with the center hold is not unusual, same thing happened to me overtime.
 

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It may be an individual thing..

The center hold can prove difficult because you have black on black and only half the bull..

The 6 o'clock hold offers the entire bull, plus the vertical bull dia. to work with, and the black post is on a lighter color part of the target.

Also, the 6 o'clock hold allows a band of color under the bull of your choice. if you do not use a band there is chance of the bull having a flat tire appearance.

Both methods work, choose the one that works best for you...

If you make your own targets, have plenty of white under the bull, enough that it captures the entire front sight... Art
 

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Younger eye's generally can take advantage of the 6 o'clock hold better than center hold.
What your experiencing now with the center hold is not unusual, same thing happened to me overtime.
My experience is the opposite. My eyesight is not as good as it use to be and using center hold does not work well anymore. Once the sights are aligned and I move the sights into the black, it's harder to maintain focus on the front sight. As I accumulate more birthdays and my eye sight deteriorates, I find that using a thick line of white hold works better for me. Focusing on and maintaining focus on the front sight against a contrasting color tends to help me shoot higher scores, especially offhand. People I compete against who are of the same age and older tend to use the same thick L.O.W. hold.

Like Art pointed out, use what works best for you.
 

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Art put out some good information on why we use the six o'clock hold. I can only add that the center hold can work for some shooters when shooting at short range like 200 yards. Further out it is just too difficult to maintain elevation and center holds result in vertical stringing. One instance where a center hold may have advantage is when favoring for wind during rapid fire matches. The six hold can cause a rise in POI during a favor when the front sight blade tends to follow the upward curvature of the bulls eye. In theory the center hold should not do this.
 

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I shoot flat tire in competition for rapids and slow prone, and more center hold for offhand. I guess you can call it a compromise between the two. It really depends how well you can see that day, health, sleep, hydration level and natural light. A heavy mirage will lift the bull, and cloudy dark day will change your POI vs. what you see.

Silhouettes I've learned to favor center for Rattle Battle practice, the 600 yard man is quite small against a wide front sight, and a 6 O'clock hold would be difficult to maintain.

Johnny Fisher's website may be down, but his videos on Youtube are great. http://thecmp.org/team-cmp-feature-johnny-fisher/

Here's another good resource: https://www.ocabj.net/sight-picture-a-primer/
 

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Center Hold. Learned that way from the start.
I haven't had the philosophy of the 6 o'clock hold splained to me and How much more beneficial or the advantage one would gain by using said method.
After watching the video I can tell you that I am happy I've never used the 6.
 
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Art put out some good information on why we use the six o'clock hold. I can only add that the center hold can work for some shooters when shooting at short range like 200 yards. Further out it is just too difficult to maintain elevation and center holds result in vertical stringing. One instance where a center hold may have advantage is when favoring for wind during rapid fire matches. The six hold can cause a rise in POI during a favor when the front sight blade tends to follow the upward curvature of the bulls eye. In theory the center hold should not do this.
Absolutely.

I have a M&P carbine in 5.45X39 with a SUIT optic on it. Seen one? Vertical pointer that comes down from the top so you don't cover the target with the vertical post.

I've shot it out to 300 yds. I get a nice 4" by 6" five shot group (with Russian surplus, too). Why is the group 50% taller than it is wide? Because I can't seem to keep the tip at the bottom of the vertical post in the center of the bullseye fore very shot. It's a real struggle, and it shows in the group shape/size.
 

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center hold.
i look where i want the bullet to hit.
i shoot a lot of single shots. works best for me.
Lruss
 

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I used six o'clock hold for standing and a line of white for sitting and prone when I started shooting Service Rifle matches. Did that for many years even though I shot the Match Rifle way more often. Then I went through several years where my Service Rifle shooting was abysmal. Especially 300 rapid.

I switched to center hold and started shooting well. Eventually, I went to a wider front sight.
 

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Center hold so I can adjust between range distances with clicks using the irons or inches with my my simple Leopold scope.
 

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Center hold. Good eyesight is a requirement though. An added bonus is that you will only need 3 clicks to remember. Mine are + 8, +15, and +37. With a 6 or sub six hold you will need a zero for 200 plus the 2 reduced targets, 300yd range plus a reduced 600 and a 600yd zero. 6 total I think? But honestly, scopes are the new thing and you will increase your score.
 

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In shooting competition I always shot line of white, except when shooting in heavy winds in the standing position, then I switched to center mass hold. Reasoning behind this was to break the shot quickly when front sight was in the black because it wouldn't be there for long.
 

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Mines a little different for each position and may also differ depending on the light conditions.

Another one worth trying in slow prone is crowd all the way up into the top of the black so only a sliver is showing above the sight.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Was out the range this afternoon. Picked up some Garands recently and wanted to function fire them and get 'em zeroed in at 100yds. Both turned out to be good shooters.

After zeroing in the second rifle, I put two en blocs through it to see how well it grouped on a SR-1 target. For this I used my typical 6 o'clock hold. Using some '67 HXP, and shooting from a bench with both front and rear bags, seemed to group rather well; in fact, very normal for what I typically shoot. I then decided to try a little experimentation. I put up another SR-1 target and put two more en blocs through the rifle, but this time I used a center hold, and went down two clicks of elevation. Out of the 16 shots, I knew I really pulled one to the right (and this turned out to be a 7 off the paper). But when I walked up to the target, I was amazed at the difference!

The target on the left is the first target using a 6 o'clock hold, while the target on the right was done using a center hold. Each fired with the same rifle using '67 HXP. Not by any means a scientific test, but I think I'm sold on the center hold! Will try this on some other rifles to confirm.

(BTW, the black arrow on the left target points to the sighters)

 

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After i got my Rx so i could see the front sight again I ended up going to a center hold after trying the 6 oc for about 6 months with the new Rx. My scores went up and my groups are tighter. Also i find it easier to focus on the front sight with the center hold vs a 6 oc hold. My eye tends to draw to the bull vs the front sight.
I also like the wider front sights when possible. Again this helps me focus on the front sight better and it draws my eye to the front sight better leading to better front sight focus.

In the end you use what works. I like a center hold as it makes for shooting the center of any size target easier. 6oc works great as long as your shooting at NRA service rifle targets at know yardage.

your SR1 target is 6 3/8" at 100 yards if you hold 6oc on a 8" bull your going to shoot low

try different things and see how your score looks.
 
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