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Discussion Starter #1
Two things first: #1: I’m a sucker for the concept of a “do all” rifle. I’ve tried M1a’s, Bergara HMR, Christiansen MPR, various AR’s, etc. Each one has missed that mythical “good for everything” mark, but I keep searching (the M1A is close though). #2: Maybe I’m weird, but I like quality rifle optics as much or more than the rifles they go on, and I have been known to buy scopes I think are cool without necessarily having a rifle to put under them yet. One of the scopes I’m lusting over is Vortex’s new 1-10 razor.

I’m once again kicking around building an optic-first do-all rifle. This time, I’m looking at a scout length m1a under the 1-10 razor in a traditional mount. I personally don’t like LER scout scopes. Have any of you put together scout length rifles with low power variable optics( (LPVO)? If so, would you mind showing and sharing your results? Many thanks.

PS If any of you are wondering why not just go AR308, I can answer in one word: California.
 

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I used some low power scopes years ago on my SOCOM rifle but over time I realized that the rifle's accuracy was good enough that the scope's low power was limiting the rifle's abilities. I now use a Vortex PST Gen II 3-15x44. It's my all around gun that I use for hunting (deer and elk and any critters that threaten my homestead). And yes, I did pick up a AR 308 (Springfield Saint Victor) and it has a Vortex PST Gen II 3-15x44 too.
 

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I don't have a Scout but I have two Socom16s. One has a SIG Romeo5 on the factory scout rail coupled with a American Defense QD mount. This works extremely well, although when engaging targets 12"x20" out to 200 yards the 2moa dot covers the target, turning the red dot down in brightness helps at the longer range (200) and better to be stationary. I'm very happy with this configuration. I have to agree with many on this board that mounting a scope up front throws harmonics off and can add a lot of weight up front depending on what scope you use. The factory scout rail is better suited for red dots.

The second Socom16 (Kryptek poly stock as well) is still a work in progress. I have a Vortex Viper PST 1-4 but no Sadlak mount(either aluminum or the AB) yet, Tubb springs, Sadlak guide rod, Sadlak mag release and a Bradley cheek rest.

The PST gen 1 reticle is a wee bit small but the glass is excellent for the money 299.99, but without a mount Its hard to tell how well its going to work, I have a feeling a Gen II 1-6 is coming. Eurooptic has demo Vortex Viper PSTII 1-6 sometimes for 489.99.




 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Seems a lot of folks mostly running SOCOMs, but that short barrel and brake seem like they’d be obnoxious and they wouldn’t take full advantage of a .308. I’ve never fired one though, so that’s just me speculating. Can they reach out with a good optic (700-800ish yds)?

As RAMMAC noted, the accuracy of a good M1A often outclasses a typical 1-4 LPVO. That’s why I’m really interested in that 1-10. The stats on that thing are impressive. Heck, not that long ago a 3-9 was considered all the versatility anyone could need. Also considering the NF NX8 1-8 for the same purpose.
 

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Yeah! Kinda like that! You like it?
I liked it a lot. It belonged to a friend, who ended up selling it and getting a Glen Nelson National Match. Go figure. :cry:

On a Scout, I think the Sig Tango 6 with the extended range 7.62 reticle would be perfect. The Army is buying them for their new DMR's.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I liked it a lot. It belonged to a friend, who ended up selling it and getting a Glen Nelson National Match. Go figure. :cry:

On a Scout, I think the Sig Tango 6 with the extended range 7.62 reticle would be perfect. The Army is buying them for their new DMR's.
I have a 1-6 Tango6T on an AR and I like it. You don’t really hear much about them, but it’s done well by me.
 

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Fulton Receiver, Wolfe 18.5" Medium fluted barrel, Wolfe ModFib stock, SWFA HD 1-6x24mm



***"

GWLA Receiver, LRB/Criterian DMR Medium contour 18.5" barrel, Leupold VX-R Patrol 1.25-4x20mm





I like them both. The second rifle is probably more practical, being lighter, especially if you swapped out the leather sling for a material one, as the scope is something like half a pound lighter, as the barrel is lighter too. I wouldn't mind trying a Nightforce NX8 1-8x24, but I'm still working up my courage, as well as seeing how the year's cash flow is going to look. Uncertain times. I think I should unload the unassigned previous contenders first, set them free to happy homes and all that.
 

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I haven't used the PST 1-6 on the 19.25" M21 DMR, but it would certainly work. It's currently got a VX-R 3-9.

The 1-10 should be a nice match for your Scout....if it ends up being a quality optic. It's a Razor, so it should have good glass/durability/etc, but it hasn't yet been proven.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
GWLA Receiver, LRB/Criterian DMR Medium contour 18.5" barrel, Leupold VX-R Patrol 1.25-4x20mm
Ooooooooo I like that....

So okay, I’m happy to see other people have had similar ideas. Are they as handy as they look? I’m thinking of being able to get in and out of vehicles and such, while still being able to shoot accurately out to few hundred yards using reticle holds. Also, what’s weight like on something like that with wood stock? 11-12#?
 

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My WIP...
Springfield M1a Scout, CQB stock, GG&G Scout Rail & M1a Scope Mount, Sig Tango6 2x12 MOA Milling Reticle, Shield RMS offset, Lantac Dragon BiLock Muzzle Brake, SEI muzzle adapter, NM trigger w/ Sadlak mag release, SEI bolt release, Sadlak spring guide....
Shoots easy 1-2moa w/ FGMM 168SMK to 100-200 yards...
432041
 

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It seems like the thing about a do everything rifle is that it isn't that great at anything in particular. Big glass can help you see better, but it really doesn't make you shoot better, perhaps with the exception of paper punching.
For it to be able to do anything you need to have it with, somewheres besides the truck and the bench and big glass adds to weight and bulk on an already heavy platform.
Another thing about moon scopes is getting lost in 'em, wavering about trying to find the target you see fine without it. That can be mitigated by practicing mounting it a lot (which you should be doin anyway) so the target comes into view as you bring it up. Sometimes you don't have time to be fiddling around with variable magnification.
just my 2¢ 😏, target rifles are fine for what they're intended for
 

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Maybe I should just go wipe ole' Brown Bess off with an oily rag and grind some powder corns, but I see most rounds fired for hunting and other activities as happening at or less than 300 yards and simple irons work great at these ranges. Rifle is lighter, sights are fool proof, and we're back to being "riflemen" again instead of techno wizards. These rifles have the best iron sights in the world, let's use them. They worked great in WW2. Unless you plan on being a "sniper" in the coming conflict, does your rifle need a moon scope? Red dots and/o lazers work great for room clearings and within cities and scopes for long range sniper fire but for in the trenches, irons can't be surpassed. $.02.
 

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I think you are correct in not needing Scopes with these sights , at least the STD or Match , but if you want any kind of precision with the SOCOM , a Scope is the way to go & still somewhat use the Irons . Don t mind my jury rigged Cheek rest on the SOCOM , it will probably get a Bradley , like the 18.5" , when I'm sure of what height is needed , I may go another way .
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820C07C6-58C6-456D-9776-A6FF6BE9EB69.jpeg
 

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Ooooooooo I like that....

So okay, I’m happy to see other people have had similar ideas. Are they as handy as they look? I’m thinking of being able to get in and out of vehicles and such, while still being able to shoot accurately out to few hundred yards using reticle holds. Also, what’s weight like on something like that with wood stock? 11-12#?
The Lil' Buddy isn't light, just lighter. 13 pounds unloaded with a magazine. More maneuverable than most of the type that I have, but it it isn't the 'light one'.


Now, you could easily drop a couple pounds by changing out the sling for a canvas one (it's something like 3/4 of a pound), swapping the mount for a Sadlak Aluminum (4 ounces there), and using a standard GI profile barrel instead of a medium heavy (maybe close to a pound difference?)

If you wanted to get even lighter, you could also lose a little bit with a SAI synthetic stock, would save you roughly 3/4-1 pound, depending on the wood stock for comparison, or one of the cool carbon fiber stocks.

If you're pretty sure you don't have any use for the iron sights, and want to keep the weight down, ditch both the iron sights and the scope mount altogether, and grab a Bula XM-21 receiver, and mount the rings directly to the rifle. You lose not just the weight of the scope mount, but the rear sight assembly, the front sight, and the additional weight of the GLFS mount over a standard gas lock. I'm going to spitball that at about 4 ounces total additional weight savings.

Doing imperfect machinations, if I did all of that to this specimen, that would knock total weight down to... maybe 10.5-11 pounds unloaded, which is not too bad for an M14 with a variable powered scope on it.

If an XM21 dedicated LPVO lighter scout-length rig is attractive, it sounds like a project you might want to have TonyBen perhaps put together. He's a Bula dealer, and seems to put together a wide variety of options. Man, you got me wondering.... that get expensive.
 

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So for mine, the reason I went with the GG&G Mount is repeatable zero QD. It also has a Holosun 503GU on an ARMS 17 qd Mount. Both the Sig and the Holosun are mounted at the same height so they use the same cheek rest. If I wanna run iron, just snap off the cheek rest..
It all depends on what I’m doing.
Im actually working on a padded, sealed case for the Sig to put on my pack...
10.2 lbs empty with Holosun
12.4 lbs empty with Sig
 
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