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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all,

I've got my hands on a used full size/length SAI that needs to be properly sighted in on iron sights using 150 gr mil ball. I want to sight/zero to battle sight standards. The rifle has less than 500 rounds through it but I have no idea what the sights were set at and I would like to start from zero/factory settings and adjust to Military Zero.

So:

What is the Military zero? 25/300 or something else?

What is the correct distance to zero at initially?

What is the correct setting to set the REAR sight at to start with?

Thanks!
 

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I think what your referring to is battle sight zero. It is at 200 meters. That will allow you to engage man size targets all the way from 0-300 meters, without adjusting the sights.

You will probably need to check and insure your elevation drum is calibrated first. So when you have it on "2", it's actually set for 200 meters and so on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Slayer,

DO you know what the mechanical zero settings are? I can adjust the wind age easily but do not know what to set the elevation to.

What range should I shoot at? I only have access to a 50 yd range for the moment so this is just the intial siting in.
 

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thanks for the fact check you are right. i guess just windage in the middle is mechanical zero. 8-12 clicks elevation at 100yards should give you bullseye zero. Shot my M1a yesterday for the first time guess i have no right posting much of anything :p
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Here's what I did

I shot it today using 150 gr. american eagle ball ammo.

First I set windage to center/center then I set elevation all the way down.

Fired fiverounds and adjusted.

In the end I had to bring the sight up 14 clicks and right three. That had me shooting a tight group 1-1.5 inchs above dead center at 83 ft. According to what I found searching online that should be the correct initial set up.

I fired off a ten round string and got a racketball sized group at 83 ft. I was using a 25 meter target I found online that alleges to be for an M14. The target was a large dot with a line above the dot. Instructions said to adjust until group was inside the dot then adjust up until groups fell on the line and that should be the correct zero.

Now I just have to find a 200 yrd range and fine tune it.

If someone has something to add or suggestions I'd love to hear it.
 

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Mechanical zero is simply that, all adjustments are set on zero. It isn't used for shooting per say. It is the basis from which battle sight or battle zero is obtained. If 50 yards is all you have then that's what you must use for the time being. Remember, your elevation drum is meters and not yards, although they are close enough for government work. Ideally you want to calibrate or check your calibration on your elevation drum at 200 yards. If you do not know how to calibrate you elevation drum, search it on YouTube. There is a good video that a guy made explaining how to achieve this. If you want to pm me, I will find a book I have and give you the title and you can get it. It's a training manual actually.
 

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thanks for the fact check you are right. i guess just windage in the middle is mechanical zero. 8-12 clicks elevation at 100yards should give you bullseye zero. Shot my M1a yesterday for the first time guess i have no right posting much of anything :p
Your fine, I didn't mean to sound like I was busting your chops or anything. If I did come across like that, I sincerely appoligize, as that was not my intent. Please feel free to post anytime. Don't worry, I've been corrected more than once myself. I just wanted you to know the truth is all. Thats what this forum is all about, learning from each other.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks

Slayer,

I did adjust the drum as per the video on youtube. I will probably have to fine tune it at the range when I can get out to 200 yards.

I did try and do things based on meters hence why I used 82 feet to do the initial zero which is as close to 25 meters as I can get where I'm shooting.
 

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I would just set my drum on 100 meters, which will be the lowest setting. It won't be marked that low, but you can compare the lines on the drum and figure out what 100 meters is. I would expect your shots to be slightly high. That is of course if your drum is calibrated correctly.
 

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Slayer no worries at all, i have no problem admitting I'm wrong. I interpreted your post as you meant it. And hope i will always be corrected when in err in the future. As you mentioned in your post I am here to learn (not to troll or flame).ICONSMILE
 

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"rotate the elevation drum without moving the rear sight until the 250 meter mark (the line between the 200 and 400 meter lines) is lined up with
the index mark."

??????
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Chief: that's the target I used so hopefully it's reasonably accurate as a starting point.

"rotate the elevation drum without moving the rear sight until the 250 meter mark (the line between the 200 and 400 meter lines) is lined up with
the index mark."
Stuntbutt: That post confused me as well (found that on this site and AR15.com) but after talking with a friend who just did this with his M1Garand and watching the detailed online video I relized that what they mean is: Get the rifle adjusted, crank the site back down to "zero" and count the clicks, then roll the sight back up to the # of clicks and check the POI. If you're still hitting on target at 25 meters then your know how many clicks up for elevation to get to a 200 meter zero. There is a set screw on the elevation drum. If you hold the drum and use a decent sized screw driver you can loosen the screw and then adjust the drum so that the "2" is lined up with the line on the site. You have to hold the rear sight aperture in place while you move the drum to "2" to prevent the elevation from changing. You then hold the drum and re-tighten the screw. If when finished you can roll it back to zero or up to "2" and get the same number of clicks then you should be all set.

Now, some of what I read suggested setting it to 250 meters which would be between 2 and 3 because the 25 meter zero is for 250 and other stuff said 25 = 200. So I wasn't clear on where to leave it but I also was using 150 gr .308 not military surplus. Others on here will have more specific and detailed answers I'm sure. IMHO it's close enough and I should not have trouble hitting a silhouette out to 300 meters on iron sites. Anyway, I'm putting a Springfield fixed power scope on it since I have one already so the iron sites are just backup.

All, if I've miss stated something please let me know. I'm certainly not an M14 expert and am just trying to reply.
 

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M14 BZO Target Dimensions?

Chief, Tiger, or anyone know… what the dimensions of the M14 BZO Target is? I printed it out and came up with “Black Dot” diameter of 2” and the “Line” to “Black Dots” center line of 1-13/16”. Is/should the point of impact be 1-13/16” above the point of aim at 25 meters?

Let me ask this another way. What is the difference between point of impact and point of aim at 25 meters?
Thanks, John
 

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Chief, Tiger, or anyone know… what the dimensions of the M14 BZO Target is? I printed it out and came up with “Black Dot” diameter of 2” and the “Line” to “Black Dots” center line of 1-13/16”. Is/should the point of impact be 1-13/16” above the point of aim at 25 meters?

Let me ask this another way. What is the difference between point of impact and point of aim at 25 meters?
Thanks, John
Using the pink tape measure in my desk, I believe you are right on with 1 3/4" high. Remember, at that distance one click is 1/4 inch, so any adjustment less than that is irrelevant at that distance.

ETA: Further googling leads me to this

A POA=POI zero at 25 meters will also be POA=POI at 200 meters

To use 25 meters to zero for 250 meters, you need to be 1.8 inches high at 25 meters. I also got 4.6 cm, which is about 1.9 inches. However, I am concerned with this number because that will mean about seven clicks up from 25=200.

Further further googling and some zip files show that the US Army in FM (Field Manual) 23-8 issued in 1974 advises a 250 meter battle sight zero to be accomplished by aiming at a 25 meter target and adjusting POI to 4.6 cm above the POA.

So there you have it. And remember, this is the Internet, where everyone is an expert.
 

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Thanks for the info. I wanted to make sure I printed this to the correct size.

I have FM 23-8, but mine is dated May 1965. What section did you find that information? The only information I could find in mine about sighting was in the “Introduction, General Data, Sights”. It says “ Rear… adjustable (one click of elevation or windage moves the strike of the bullet .7 centimeters at 25 meters).” Which is the equivalent of ¼” at 25 yards.

I’m trying to recreate a BZO procedure similar to the procedure used in the USMC for marksmanship (re)qualification using the M16 in the 1980’s (it may still be used for all I know). I have that BZO target. Printed on the target it states “M16 Battlesight Zeroing Target, Place @ 15 Yards, Aim Center of Mass, Adjust sights to print 1-1/2” below aiming point”. Assuming no wind, rifle is in mil spec, ammo is in mil spec, BZO was properly done, and the rifleman is doing his job, the rifleman’s first shot should be in the black (12” bull’s eye) at 200 meters. This procedure does work. You’ll at least hit in the 4 ring at the 200 yard line.

I’ll experiment. I’m sure the M14 BZO target is close.
Thanks again for the info.
John
 
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