Ok, about to hit the range for some serious sighting in and bonding. Tried to remove the gas plug on a new m1a scout squad and MAN! that's some serious torque-age. I don't have one of those wonderful gizmos in Tonyben's video and a crescent wrapped in a towel aint holding it while I grunt away with a 3/8 wrench. What's the easier way guys? a vise to hold the barrel / gas tube link and a really big cheeta bar?
and how much torque is that puppy supposed to have?
Get yourself a 'gas plug wrench'. It works wonders! I had the same issue trying to remove my flash hider... Had to take it down to a machinist to clamp in his vise until I got the gas lug wrench... Day saved! I 'snipe' mine with a piece of PVC pipe and KurtC is correct get a 3/8ths 6 point combination wrench for the gas plug. 15 to 23 ft lbs?
I bought the heavy (3/8" thick) Gas Cylinder Wrench from Sadlak. You can hold that gas assembly rock solid still and turn that gas plug with as much force as needed. Get a six-point socket and a break-over bar, making sure the socket is not one of the 12 point ones, and making sure your 6 point/sided socket is a nice tight fit, then with the assistance of the break-over bar and the Sadlak Gas Cylinder Wrench, removing the gas plug should be easy.
Might also help to put a drop of oil on the flange and let it sit for a while, then break it loose with a 6-point socket or box end. Shouldn't need a snipe then. -Lloyd BEERCHUG1
thanks y'all! I'm going to run a couple of hundred round through it in the morning and see if it helps. being a Harley mechanic type I do have the torch, break over bar and 6 point tools.
I'll give it another shot tomorrow
Personally I use Blue Loctite. Just a drop on the first couple of threads, not on the flange. Screw it in to cover the rest of the threads and torque. It also acts as anti-seize and will not harden. -Lloyd BEERCHUG1
Dry vs. Wet torque
• When applying torque to a dry bolt more friction is created than applying torque to a wet bolt with oil or other automotive fluids on the threads. With less friction (wet threads), the bolt will stretch more before a torque wench will click. Because friction is such a big factor in bolt torque, it is important to know the difference between applying torque to a dry bolt and a wet bolt. Using oil, anti-seize or other types of thread lubricant is a common practice, but an understanding that wet threads require less torque than dry threads because of friction is very important. Since every type of lubricant has a different loss of friction coefficient, it is recommended that every technician own a chart showing how much to reduce the torque when using different bolts and lubricants. This type of chart can accompany a bolt torque table, a drill index chart for drilling and tapping, a conversion chart and a basic calculator. The “Pocket Ref” by Thomas J. Glover is a great all-in-one book with just about everything.
Converting Foot pounds of Force to Inch pounds of Force
Converting dry torque values to lubricated torque values.
Table conversion chart for converting dry torque value to "wet" or lubricated torque values. Just plug in the value that is called for, and is almost always a dry torque value. Remember, Loc-Tite acts as a lubricant until it cures and hardens. In general lubricated torque values are quite a bit lower than dry torque values. I decided to post this because I've seen where a lot of guys are greasing, lubricating with oil, anti-seize and various thread fasteners such as Loc-Tite. Below is the link to reach the page where you can input your dry torque value and the site will give you the lubricated torque value.
Dry vs. Wet torque
• When applying torque to a dry bolt more friction is created than applying torque to a wet bolt with oil or other automotive fluids on the threads. With less friction (wet threads), the bolt will stretch more before a torque wench will click. Because friction is such a big factor in bolt torque, it is important to know the difference between applying torque to a dry bolt and a wet bolt. Using oil, anti-seize or other types of thread lubricant is a common practice, but an understanding that wet threads require less torque than dry threads because of friction is very important. Since every type of lubricant has a different loss of friction coefficient, it is recommended that every technician own a chart showing how much to reduce the torque when using different bolts and lubricants. This type of chart can accompany a bolt torque table, a drill index chart for drilling and tapping, a conversion chart and a basic calculator. The “Pocket Ref” by Thomas J. Glover is a great all-in-one book with just about everything.
Converting Foot pounds of Force to Inch pounds of Force
Converting dry torque values to lubricated torque values.
Table conversion chart for converting dry torque value to "wet" or lubricated torque values. Just plug in the value that is called for, and is almost always a dry torque value. Remember, Loc-Tite acts as a lubricant until it cures and hardens. In general lubricated torque values are quite a bit lower than dry torque values. I decided to post this because I've seen where a lot of guys are greasing, lubricating with oil, anti-seize and various thread fasteners such as Loc-Tite. Below is the link to reach the page where you can input your dry torque value and the site will give you the lubricated torque value.
Nice charts. Like the explanations. We used a similar system when I worked in an oil refinery, heading up hi-temp./press. exchangers, compressors etc. First time I've seen Kyle's site. I just feel that the use of a snipe is not necessary to take off the plug. If it is, the threads are being stretched. Lloyd BEERCHUG1
How much the gas plug should be tightened is often a topic of discussion. Obviously, SAI installs them with an air ratchet or hammer. RNGR1
The only thing I have ever seen in writing (FM, TM, bulletin, etc) is that the gas cylinder is held with the off hand and the combination tool is used to hand tighten the plug.
Does anyone have any official documents that indicate a recommended torque?
I had the same problem with my Norinco M14. First get the Sadlak barrel/gas tube wrench to prevent twisting. Remove the barrel/receiver assy from the stock and tilt the barrel up to let the gas piston to drop fully rearward. Then spray breakfree or liquid wrench into the gas port and then place the muzzle down to let the solvent to soak into the gas plug threads for a day or two. To break the gas plug free mount the barrel and action in a gun vise like the Tipton and then use the Sadlak barrel wrench and the M14 utility tool which has a 3/8" 6 point gas tube wrench on the end or a quality socket. I used the military tool and it some some smacks with a gunsmith hammer to finally break the plug loose. I'd suggest cleaning the tube, piston and plug with the Sadlak piston cleaning hand drills, they sell them as a kit. When reassembling apply some anti-seize to the plug's threads and tighten till snug. The GI tool makes it easy so you don't over torque the the plug vs a ratchet and socket.
well a vise and a 2 ft breakover did the trick. I need to pick up some anti-seize but I just "grunted" it back on (first grunt is 14-18 ft lbs, second grunt can go to 40 )
At the beginning of the season, I torque to 150 in/lbs and paint a match mark on the plug and gas cylinder. That way I can tell if it loosened, and I can tighten it back to the same spot after cleaning using the already been mentioned 6 pt combo wrench.
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