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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, about to hit the range for some serious sighting in and bonding. Tried to remove the gas plug on a new m1a scout squad and MAN! that's some serious torque-age. I don't have one of those wonderful gizmos in Tonyben's video and a crescent wrapped in a towel aint holding it while I grunt away with a 3/8 wrench. What's the easier way guys? a vise to hold the barrel / gas tube link and a really big cheeta bar?
and how much torque is that puppy supposed to have?
 

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Sometimes just shooting it will help it loosen.

Heat, such as a plumbers torch, to the gas cylinder (not the plug) works as well.

Make sure you are using a 6 point box wrench, preferably one that will fit inside a small pipe. (a 12 point wrench can round off the plug)

Get a gas cylinder wrench. If you are using a bench vise, wrap an old belt or sling around the gas cylinder to protect it.
 

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Ok, about to hit the range for some serious sighting in and bonding. Tried to remove the gas plug on a new m1a scout squad and MAN! that's some serious torque-age. I don't have one of those wonderful gizmos in Tonyben's video and a crescent wrapped in a towel aint holding it while I grunt away with a 3/8 wrench. What's the easier way guys? a vise to hold the barrel / gas tube link and a really big cheeta bar?
and how much torque is that puppy supposed to have?
Get yourself a 'gas plug wrench'. It works wonders! I had the same issue trying to remove my flash hider... Had to take it down to a machinist to clamp in his vise until I got the gas lug wrench... Day saved! I 'snipe' mine with a piece of PVC pipe and KurtC is correct get a 3/8ths 6 point combination wrench for the gas plug. 15 to 23 ft lbs?
 

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Sadlak Gas Cylinder Wrench

I bought the heavy (3/8" thick) Gas Cylinder Wrench from Sadlak. You can hold that gas assembly rock solid still and turn that gas plug with as much force as needed. Get a six-point socket and a break-over bar, making sure the socket is not one of the 12 point ones, and making sure your 6 point/sided socket is a nice tight fit, then with the assistance of the break-over bar and the Sadlak Gas Cylinder Wrench, removing the gas plug should be easy.
 
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Might also help to put a drop of oil on the flange and let it sit for a while, then break it loose with a 6-point socket or box end. Shouldn't need a snipe then. -Lloyd BEERCHUG1
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
thanks y'all! I'm going to run a couple of hundred round through it in the morning and see if it helps. being a Harley mechanic type I do have the torch, break over bar and 6 point tools.
I'll give it another shot tomorrow
 

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Inch pounds to Foot pounds

Get yourself a 'gas plug wrench'. It works wonders! I had the same issue trying to remove my flash hider... Had to take it down to a machinist to clamp in his vise until I got the gas lug wrench... Day saved! I 'snipe' mine with a piece of PVC pipe and KurtC is correct get a 3/8ths 6 point combination wrench for the gas plug. 15 to 23 ft lbs?
150 inch pounds converts to 12.499999 foot pounds
 
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150 inch pounds converts to 12.499999 foot pounds
Thanks! I am a 'grunt' kinda guy here and thought I'd read somewhere that it was 'kinda tight'...lol
I do recommend using antisieze on the gas plug over oil or dry though...
I just used a permanent marker and drew a line on mine and just line it up...
Best to torque it though IMHOP
 

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Once you do get it off, use anti sieze on it and 150 inch pounds torque.
Personally I use Blue Loctite. Just a drop on the first couple of threads, not on the flange. Screw it in to cover the rest of the threads and torque. It also acts as anti-seize and will not harden. -Lloyd BEERCHUG1
 

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Dry Torque values converted to "Wet" or lubricated values.

http://www.intermotive.net/Tech%20Tip/Tech%20Tip%20-%20Jan%2008.pdf


Dry vs. Wet torque
• When applying torque to a dry bolt more friction is created than applying torque to a wet bolt with oil or other automotive fluids on the threads. With less friction (wet threads), the bolt will stretch more before a torque wench will click. Because friction is such a big factor in bolt torque, it is important to know the difference between applying torque to a dry bolt and a wet bolt. Using oil, anti-seize or other types of thread lubricant is a common practice, but an understanding that wet threads require less torque than dry threads because of friction is very important. Since every type of lubricant has a different loss of friction coefficient, it is recommended that every technician own a chart showing how much to reduce the torque when using different bolts and lubricants. This type of chart can accompany a bolt torque table, a drill index chart for drilling and tapping, a conversion chart and a basic calculator. The “Pocket Ref” by Thomas J. Glover is a great all-in-one book with just about everything.

Converting Foot pounds of Force to Inch pounds of Force

http://www.kylesconverter.com/torque/foot--pounds-force-to-inch--pounds-force


Converting dry torque values to lubricated torque values.

Table conversion chart for converting dry torque value to "wet" or lubricated torque values. Just plug in the value that is called for, and is almost always a dry torque value. Remember, Loc-Tite acts as a lubricant until it cures and hardens. In general lubricated torque values are quite a bit lower than dry torque values. I decided to post this because I've seen where a lot of guys are greasing, lubricating with oil, anti-seize and various thread fasteners such as Loc-Tite. Below is the link to reach the page where you can input your dry torque value and the site will give you the lubricated torque value.

https://www.fastenal.com/en/83/torque-calculator
 

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http://www.intermotive.net/Tech%20Tip/Tech%20Tip%20-%20Jan%2008.pdf


Dry vs. Wet torque
• When applying torque to a dry bolt more friction is created than applying torque to a wet bolt with oil or other automotive fluids on the threads. With less friction (wet threads), the bolt will stretch more before a torque wench will click. Because friction is such a big factor in bolt torque, it is important to know the difference between applying torque to a dry bolt and a wet bolt. Using oil, anti-seize or other types of thread lubricant is a common practice, but an understanding that wet threads require less torque than dry threads because of friction is very important. Since every type of lubricant has a different loss of friction coefficient, it is recommended that every technician own a chart showing how much to reduce the torque when using different bolts and lubricants. This type of chart can accompany a bolt torque table, a drill index chart for drilling and tapping, a conversion chart and a basic calculator. The “Pocket Ref” by Thomas J. Glover is a great all-in-one book with just about everything.

Converting Foot pounds of Force to Inch pounds of Force

http://www.kylesconverter.com/torque/foot--pounds-force-to-inch--pounds-force


Converting dry torque values to lubricated torque values.

Table conversion chart for converting dry torque value to "wet" or lubricated torque values. Just plug in the value that is called for, and is almost always a dry torque value. Remember, Loc-Tite acts as a lubricant until it cures and hardens. In general lubricated torque values are quite a bit lower than dry torque values. I decided to post this because I've seen where a lot of guys are greasing, lubricating with oil, anti-seize and various thread fasteners such as Loc-Tite. Below is the link to reach the page where you can input your dry torque value and the site will give you the lubricated torque value.

https://www.fastenal.com/en/83/torque-calculator
Nice charts. Like the explanations. We used a similar system when I worked in an oil refinery, heading up hi-temp./press. exchangers, compressors etc. First time I've seen Kyle's site. I just feel that the use of a snipe is not necessary to take off the plug. If it is, the threads are being stretched. Lloyd BEERCHUG1
 

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How much the gas plug should be tightened is often a topic of discussion. Obviously, SAI installs them with an air ratchet or hammer. RNGR1

The only thing I have ever seen in writing (FM, TM, bulletin, etc) is that the gas cylinder is held with the off hand and the combination tool is used to hand tighten the plug.

Does anyone have any official documents that indicate a recommended torque?
 

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I think that is what Tony indicated in his videos, and I've never had one loosen up. There always as tight coming off, as it was going on. I use a torque wrench but good and tight manually gets you there as well.
I don't subscribe to gas plug tightened affecting anything as long as it's tight and 200 is just as good as 150.



150 inch pounds converts to 12.499999 foot
 

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Ok, about to hit the range for some serious sighting in and bonding. Tried to remove the gas plug on a new m1a scout squad and MAN! that's some serious torque-age. I don't have one of those wonderful gizmos in Tonyben's video and a crescent wrapped in a towel aint holding it while I grunt away with a 3/8 wrench. What's the easier way guys? a vise to hold the barrel / gas tube link and a really big cheeta bar?
and how much torque is that puppy supposed to have?
I had the same problem with my Norinco M14. First get the Sadlak barrel/gas tube wrench to prevent twisting. Remove the barrel/receiver assy from the stock and tilt the barrel up to let the gas piston to drop fully rearward. Then spray breakfree or liquid wrench into the gas port and then place the muzzle down to let the solvent to soak into the gas plug threads for a day or two. To break the gas plug free mount the barrel and action in a gun vise like the Tipton and then use the Sadlak barrel wrench and the M14 utility tool which has a 3/8" 6 point gas tube wrench on the end or a quality socket. I used the military tool and it some some smacks with a gunsmith hammer to finally break the plug loose. I'd suggest cleaning the tube, piston and plug with the Sadlak piston cleaning hand drills, they sell them as a kit. When reassembling apply some anti-seize to the plug's threads and tighten till snug. The GI tool makes it easy so you don't over torque the the plug vs a ratchet and socket.
 

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If you clean after shooting and apply anti-seize, you will never have the issue agAin.

Most people with frozen gas plugs are frozen due to a lack of regular cleaning. The carbon build up from no cleaning and locks it up tight.

IMO


I had the same problem with my Norinco M14. First get the Sadlak barrel/gas tube wrench to prevent twisting. Remove the barrel/receiver assy from the stock and tilt the barrel up to let the gas piston to drop fully rearward. Then spray breakfree or liquid wrench into the gas port and then place the muzzle down to let the solvent to soak into the gas plug threads for a day or two. To break the gas plug free mount the barrel and action in a gun vise like the Tipton and then use the Sadlak barrel wrench and the M14 utility tool which has a 3/8" 6 point gas tube wrench on the end or a quality socket. I used the military tool and it some some smacks with a gunsmith hammer to finally break the plug loose. I'd suggest cleaning the tube, piston and plug with the Sadlak piston cleaning hand drills, they sell them as a kit. When reassembling apply some anti-seize to the plug's threads and tighten till snug. The GI tool makes it easy so you don't over torque the the plug vs a ratchet and socket.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
well a vise and a 2 ft breakover did the trick. I need to pick up some anti-seize but I just "grunted" it back on (first grunt is 14-18 ft lbs, second grunt can go to 40 :) )
 

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well a vise and a 2 ft breakover did the trick. I need to pick up some anti-seize but I just "grunted" it back on (first grunt is 14-18 ft lbs, second grunt can go to 40 :) )
You only need to snug fit the plug with anti-seize on the threads. Did you clean the gas bore, cylinder and plug before reinstalling?
 
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