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Any tips on applying Polyurethane? I've seen Polyurethane in a rattle can, will this stuff work?
Refinishing wooden stocks.
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Well, there is Polyurethane and then there is Polyurethane. The stuff in the rattle can you can buy from the big hardware stores is not outdoor grade Polyurethane and will actually peel off a stock in the right outdoor conditions. it is pretty darn good for indoor furniture, but almost completely useless for a stock that will see bad weather. Even some of what is supposed to be "outdoor grade" Polyurethane in rattle cans is not much better.
"Fullerplast" was the big deal in the late 70's through mid to late 80's. It was actually an epoxy finish originally developed for the guitar industry. However, even the "Dull or Satin formula" was WAY too shiny for most folks.
There have been epoxy finishes that were used in a vacuum for gun stocks and the finish went all the way into the wood to the very core. Not sure if anyone still does this as it is very expensive and not something even an advanced hobbyist can do. You can make it look like a G.I. stock by sanding it with 150 grit sandpaper and then applying one coat of Tru-Oil or Tung oil over it.
Remington and Browning have used some kind of epoxy finish for years on their wood rifle stocks. It is a GIANT PITA to repair those finishes wihout sanding them all the way back.
Spar Varnish is about the toughest thing one can find today and still do the job by themselves. The problem with this stuff is that it doesn't look like a military finish and gives almost a plastic look. I tried it on about 3 stock sets, then gave up on it permanently. The other problem with many Varnish finishes is when you sand/abrade them back, you cut through a layer and then you have to try to fill it in or sand it all the way back. IOW, it is very difficult to repair such a finish when you scratch or ding the stock.
We also have to remember that a "G.I." finish looks like it does BECAUSE they did not apply enough coats to build up a shiny finish when they built the rifles.
A dozen coats of Tru Oil will give you a tough see-thru finish if you have the time and patience. Let each coat dry, use fine steel wool and a wipe towel to prep for all but the last coat. Two bottles = about $10.
Re: Polyurethane varnish. A commercial paint dealer will have the gym floor product. Don't gag if it's $50/gal. There's also auto clear coat, which ain't cheap and should be sprayed on.
Re: Polyurethane varnish. A commercial paint dealer will have the gym floor product. Don't gag if it's $50/gal. There's also auto clear coat, which ain't cheap and should be sprayed on.
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Almost forgot about auto paint. Thank you.
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Bamban,
Just a thought if you want to use one of the floor grade poly finishes or epoxy finishes and you want something that looks "sort of" like a G.I. finish. I can not suggest enough to NOT abrade the finish between coats with any kind of steel wool. I suggest the Gray "Scotchbrite Type" abrasive Pad which is the equivalent of 0000 steel wool, BUT you don't have to worry about steel wool hairs getting into the finish and RUSTING later on. After you get the last coat on, then use the White (super fine) abrasive pad to rub it out so you don't have that plastic looking shine. However, that may STILL not be enough to give you a satin finish something like a well rubbed G.I. stock.
If it does not, then you might want to try lightly rubbing 800 grit samdpaper with water as a lubricant to rub out the finish.
Last time I was in the WoodCraft store a few weeks ago, I purchased some very fine abrasive to use as a rubbing compound, but I have not yet really had time to experiment with it. If that turns out to be a good thing, I will report on it in a future post.
Just a thought if you want to use one of the floor grade poly finishes or epoxy finishes and you want something that looks "sort of" like a G.I. finish. I can not suggest enough to NOT abrade the finish between coats with any kind of steel wool. I suggest the Gray "Scotchbrite Type" abrasive Pad which is the equivalent of 0000 steel wool, BUT you don't have to worry about steel wool hairs getting into the finish and RUSTING later on. After you get the last coat on, then use the White (super fine) abrasive pad to rub it out so you don't have that plastic looking shine. However, that may STILL not be enough to give you a satin finish something like a well rubbed G.I. stock.
If it does not, then you might want to try lightly rubbing 800 grit samdpaper with water as a lubricant to rub out the finish.
Last time I was in the WoodCraft store a few weeks ago, I purchased some very fine abrasive to use as a rubbing compound, but I have not yet really had time to experiment with it. If that turns out to be a good thing, I will report on it in a future post.
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Gus,
Thank you for your never ending help to our community.
Now, let me take advantage if this thread. I have a M1 I intended to shoot in JC Garand matches. I asked the builder to put the best stuff in it, GI contour KBI barrel and an Extra Fancy French Walnut stock in it. It did not shoot great, used every bit of the 10 ring. That is another subject. I shot it twice once to zero and second time at Perry.
Here is the immediate problem, the finish on the stock right at the comb where I rested my check the finish just got torn up by my sweat. There are streaks running down the buttstock. I tried some rejuvenating oil to no avail. I don't know s**t about wood and finishes, but I can't stand looking at the fancy wood wood with streaks on it.
Any suggestion on how to fix the streaks?
I got one. Box it up and send it to Gus.... just wishing.
Thank you for your never ending help to our community.
Now, let me take advantage if this thread. I have a M1 I intended to shoot in JC Garand matches. I asked the builder to put the best stuff in it, GI contour KBI barrel and an Extra Fancy French Walnut stock in it. It did not shoot great, used every bit of the 10 ring. That is another subject. I shot it twice once to zero and second time at Perry.
Here is the immediate problem, the finish on the stock right at the comb where I rested my check the finish just got torn up by my sweat. There are streaks running down the buttstock. I tried some rejuvenating oil to no avail. I don't know s**t about wood and finishes, but I can't stand looking at the fancy wood wood with streaks on it.
Any suggestion on how to fix the streaks?
I got one. Box it up and send it to Gus.... just wishing.
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Got a good chuckle out of that.
First thing, do you know or can you find out what finish was used on the stock? That would make it IMMENSELY easier to figure out what to do next.
Unfortunately, it is absolutely normal for some folks to have hand sweat that does some nasty things to gun finishes and that includes bluing.
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A lot easier if I send it to VA or hand deliver it, strip the stock and re- finish. Anyhow this is the best I can get about the finish.
"Deft Danish Oil Finish-Clear. If you have purchased a stock set or had one finished by DGR this is the oil you need to maintain the finish. Excellent for wood and easy to use. ( One Quart )"
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OK, that explains it. I surely don't mean to start an argument, so I hope I can make this clear. Deft Danish Oil is a far, FAR better finish than Linseed Oil or BLO when the stock and handguards stay in the same climate area year around. IOW, it is not a bad finish at all. I do believe Tung Oil is a better finish and Birchwood Casey's Tru Oil is better still, though. The problem with these last two finishes are they take longer to apply and are not as cost effective as Danish Oil. I would also like to use this as a teaching moment as this is a great example to use.
You travel from Texas to Ohio to shoot the John Garand Match. That means you are moving from one climate zone to another and usually there is no time for the wood stock to "normalize" in the different climate before you shoot. You are also trying to get the ultimate accuracy out of a plain wood stock and are more demanding about the accuracy than most people are with wood stocks.
When we built wood stocked NM M14's we had an even larger problem to deal with. We built and rebuilt them every year at Quantico,, VA, then sent rifles to Okinawa, Hawaii, California and Camp Lejeune for Division Matches. Believe it or not, even sending them down just one state to Lejueune meant some differences in stock fit due to swelling or shinking. We did not have the facilities to use a spray on epoxy finish at Quantico and we really didn't have the manpower or time as well. We tried many stock finishes over the years and to this day, Tru Oil is still a superior choice to keep wood stocks from swelling or shinking and is a pretty tough finish that can be repaired fairly simply. Because it does not allow much moisture to get in or out of the stock, there is less problems with normalizing when you move around the country with your rifle.
OK, so how to fix your stock? I am not sure if it is necessary to completely strip the stock to add Tru Oil finish to your stock. What I would try is dampening a wad of paper towels in Acetone and going over the stock to the point most of the surface Danish Oil is gone. That INCLUDES the bedding surfaces, BTW. Then I would allow it to dry for about three days before adding coats of Tru Oil. This should be enough time to ensure the oil in the stock is dry or dry enough. Then abrade the stock by rubbing it down with a GREEN colored abrasive pad. Use compressed air or REALLY wipe the stock down well to ensure there is no residue left. Then hard rub a LIGHT coat of Tru Oil in the stock. You want it somewhat sticky before you move on to another area of the stock. Set that aside for another two or three days to ensure it is dry. Then abrade that surface and following surfaces with a GRAY abrasive pad after it dries and ensure you blow or clean off the residue. Then another light coat of Tru Oil well rubbed in. Try to even the coats throughout the stock each time you lay on a coat. I would use about 8 to 10 thin coats before you rub it out with a WHITE abrasive pad as the final rub out. Then rub the dickens out of it with a terrycloth towel and you will be done. I'm pretty sure the Tru Oil will stand up to the sweat of your hands as long as you wipe it off the stock when you can.
Same here. The only other product that I've been strongly-impressed with for its ability to bead up and shed water (sweat) is, of all things, a WATER-based clear surface coating sold in a Minwax can, IIRC. I mean it's tough stuff after it dries 24 hrs. Artisan Hardwood Floors in Austin uses it on all their high-end new installs. I've had it down on the oak floors in most of my house, kitchen included, for 10 years. Run a Swifter over the floors and they still look brand new. And this place gets used by 2-legged and 4-legged residents. I've never had to do any repairs (knock on wood) that a Tibet Almond Stick wasn't good for, so I don't know how easily the water-based coating re-applies.
Gus, get yourself a bag of those little rectangular ribbed cotton pads for applying finish when you don't want to rub it in with your fingers. They'll move varnish around like a Purdy paint brush at a miniscule cost, no brush cleaning when it's done.
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Though birch and beech are just into the range of being softer hardwoods, I have never found it necessary to precondition the woods as we often do with soft woods like pine before staining. The first coat of Tru Oil well rubbed into the bare wood stock and after it is dry and sanded back down on the surface, is all the preconditioning needed before applying the leather dye/alchohol based stain.
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Ran into something I may not have mentioned earlier, so I thought I would add it now.
I just got done refinishing a matching Mid War Inland Carbine Stock to the correct type, two rivet handguard. The color was a good match on both parts after staining, so I applied the one more thin coat of Tru Oil and rubbed it so it would not shine too much on both parts. Well, the handguard sucked up the oil more than the stock - even with the filler coat of Tru Oil on it. It looked dull and lifeless compared to the slight shine of the stock. So I applied one more EXTREMELY thin coat of Tru Oil and rubbed it out before the oil was dry to match the slight oil "shine" on the stock. That worked jim dandy to match the very slight oil shine on both pieces and still look exactly like a G.I. oil finish. Now both pieces have just a little bit of "shine" that looks like linseed oil or tung oit, but is superior to both.
I have run into this before with some Garand Handguards, but this is the first time I ran into it on a Carbine handguard.
I just got done refinishing a matching Mid War Inland Carbine Stock to the correct type, two rivet handguard. The color was a good match on both parts after staining, so I applied the one more thin coat of Tru Oil and rubbed it so it would not shine too much on both parts. Well, the handguard sucked up the oil more than the stock - even with the filler coat of Tru Oil on it. It looked dull and lifeless compared to the slight shine of the stock. So I applied one more EXTREMELY thin coat of Tru Oil and rubbed it out before the oil was dry to match the slight oil "shine" on the stock. That worked jim dandy to match the very slight oil shine on both pieces and still look exactly like a G.I. oil finish. Now both pieces have just a little bit of "shine" that looks like linseed oil or tung oit, but is superior to both.
I have run into this before with some Garand Handguards, but this is the first time I ran into it on a Carbine handguard.
Just a little tip on using Tung oil, when you are done with it drop marbles into the bottle untill the tung oil just comes to the mouth of the bottle so it wont gel up.
Casey
Casey
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Thanks for the great write up on refinishing. I am in the process of refinishing a Sykes walnut stock anD found that my wallpaper steamer worked really well in steaming out the majority of small dents. The wallpaper steamer has a long hose and can really direct the steam where needed.
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Eh, I think you just DATED us as many folks on the forum may not have even heard of wall paper that had to be applied with paste glue, let alone a wall paper steamer. GRIN. My dad rented one in the 60's when Mom demanded we get rid of the wall paper in the house that she had always hated.
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I resemble that remark! (grin)
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From a completely different application, I love Tru Oil for finishing guitar necks. It's important to keep a guitar neck as stable as possible through temperature and especially humidity changes. So I seal the wood with 2 thin coats of shellac before applying the Tru Oil. Shellac apparently does a better job of keeping water out. However, shellac is cut with alcohol so you can't use alcohol-based stain on top of it. The solution is to put you color in shellac and apply that over the first two sealer coats. Takes some practice to get even color but it works very well and you don't get dramatic color differences on the end grain.
I actually got this approach from a post somewhere about finishing gun stocks BTW.
I actually got this approach from a post somewhere about finishing gun stocks BTW.
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I have used spray on Bullseye Shellac as a sealer coat under Tru Oil before, but I sand the entire surface of the stock before I apply the spirit (Alchohol based) leather dye. Never had a problem coloring the stock with spirit stain when I did that, but there was no longer a shellac coat over the entire wood.
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Don't feel too bad though, it won't be long before we have posters on this forum that were not born before this millenia and even the younger members will start to feel old. Chuckle.
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