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"Red" gun laws continue to fail...

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Gents,

Just an observation, but our latest Colorado mass shooting/shooter was (once again) a failure of the system to have people, who should have been reported and tracked being able to buy a gun and commit the crime. The shooter had been documented as having made bomb threats, against a family member, and was known to Law Enforcement.

The system is not working, as envisioned, so the anti gunners are going after the guns and not the failed system or people that committed the heinous acts of violence.

Law Enforcement is swamped, I get it, but red flag laws should work if applied properly.

Again, this is just an observation. I'm sure most of you have picked up on it...so I'm venting and preaching to the choir.

Wes
Behind Enemy Lines in Oregon
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Behind enemy lines as well. On the east coast. I don't agree with red flag laws at all. It is a direct infringement.

Gun law, after more gun laws, after prior gun laws, are not helping. So the left thinks we need more gun laws.
When it comes down to it, criminals will continue to be criminal. We should just make it a law to not be a criminal.

Oh wait .... we already have that. Don't we?

My point is, criminals will not obey any law, new or old. Family values need to be restored. Our young taught right from wrong.
 

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Gents,

Just an observation, but our latest Colorado mass shooting/shooter was (once again) a failure of the system to have people, who should have been reported and tracked being able to buy a gun and commit the crime. The shooter had been documented as having made bomb threats, against a family member, and was known to Law Enforcement.

The system is not working, as envisioned, so the anti gunners are going after the guns and not the failed system or people that committed the heinous acts of violence.

Law Enforcement is swamped, I get it, but red flag laws should work if applied properly.

Again, this is just an observation. I'm sure most of you have picked up on it...so I'm venting and preaching to the choir.

Wes
Behind Enemy Lines in Oregon
"Red-flag" laws are horrible. They are almost identical to mental-health commitment laws, and if you consider how bad mental-health commitments are, you will understand why. The due process afforded to mental-health patients is crap, and the degree of crappiness varies from state to state, and even from county to county.

Judges, especially elected judges, worry about what will happen if they do not commit someone, and they go on to hurt or kill themselves or others. After the Virginia Tech mass shooting in 2007, Congress passed a law which gave funding states to encourage them to report involuntary commitments. The law also authorized states to establish processes to restore the firearm rights of people who had been previously committed.

After that, many media stories complained that it was too easy for a dangerous person to regain firearm rights. Their evidence was anecdotal and limited to two or three cherry-picked cases. What a surprise.

While there isn't any comprehensive research, a lawyer friend of mine told me that from what he heard, the petitions are almost always denied, even when there is solid evidence that the person is no longer a threat to self or others.
 

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Gents,

Just an observation, but our latest Colorado mass shooting/shooter was (once again) a failure of the system to have people, who should have been reported and tracked being able to buy a gun and commit the crime. The shooter had been documented as having made bomb threats, against a family member, and was known to Law Enforcement.

The system is not working, as envisioned, so the anti gunners are going after the guns and not the failed system or people that committed the heinous acts of violence.

Law Enforcement is swamped, I get it, but red flag laws should work if applied properly.

Again, this is just an observation. I'm sure most of you have picked up on it...so I'm venting and preaching to the choir.

Wes
Behind Enemy Lines in Oregon
Regarding the Colorado Springs shooter, there are some details to consider.

In June 2021, the shooter was arrested for the bomb (and other) threats to his mother and grandparents, and he "was booked into the El Paso County Jail on two counts of felony menacing and three counts of first-degree kidnapping, according to the sheriff's office." (Emphasis mine.)

For some reason, he was not prosecuted, and the charges were dropped. When charges are dropped, Colorado law requires courts to automatically seal the records, and has a law prohibiting law enforcement from publicly disclosing any information about the cases.

This beings up the questions of why he was not prosecuted, and why (if?) he was not sent to probate court (or whatever Colorado uses) to be involuntarily committed. It is a pretty safe bet that he meet all of the requirements.

We also don't know when he obtained the firearms. Did he have them before the 2021 arrest?

Colorado shooting suspect purchased gun despite 2021 bomb threat arrest
 

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They tried alcohol or did you sleep thru that class in school? In order for laws to work they have to be inforced which means lawyers would have to work for convictions and NO PLEA BARGINING. Judges would have give those convicted more than a slap on the hand or comunity service. The reporting service would have to work. It doesn't now.
 

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They tried alcohol or did you sleep thru that class in school? In order for laws to work they have to be inforced which means lawyers would have to work for convictions and NO PLEA BARGINING. Judges would have give those convicted more than a slap on the hand or comunity service. The reporting service would have to work. It doesn't now.
I understand the objection to plea bargains, but without them, the judicial system would collapse. Fact is, ~94% of state felony convictions and ~97% percent of federal felony convictions are plea bargains rather than judge or jury convictions.

Even though it may seem that plea bargaining makes it easier on criminals, that is a matter of debate. What isn't a debate is the problem the plea bargain system, combined with mandatory minimums, causes innocent people who are wrongly charged with crimes. Far too often, they plead guilty in exchange for a lighter sentence because of the risk of losing at trial.

Excessive bail, particularly for non-violent crimes, also induces innocent people to plead guilty. For those who can't afford bail, they can be in pre-trial detention for longer than the typical sentence. This is a serious problem for low-income people.

This is the real reason for the movement to end cash bail, even though a lot of people say it is a result of a "soft on crime" mentality.
 

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I think Rich Fool knows what he is talking about. The feds, at least in my jurisdiction, get to cherry pick what they prosecute. If it ain't a slam dunk case it will not be presented. Even then, although rarely, one bad case (innocent defendant) will get dragged in. Our state prosecutors are (a) almost criminally stupid, and (b) pathologically lazy. We have had something like a 400 case backlog in our circuit court for the 30 years I have practiced here. Nobody cares. Ten or so years back they brought on a mad dog, clean up the docket, set 'em all, try 'em, let's get it down to speedy trials. That person lasted four months, was unceremoniously fired. He actually had the temerity to charge a lawyer who was smuggling contraband into the jail. People only want so much justice.

Only 2% of federal criminal defendants go to trial, and most who do are found guilty

More interesting to me is
The due process afforded to mental-health patients is crap, and the degree of crappiness varies from state to state, and even from county to county. Judges, especially elected judges, worry about what will happen if they do not commit someone, and they go on to hurt or kill themselves or others.
I don't know where Rich Fool lives but here psychological commitments never, well almost never, get to a judge. Generally, a hearing officer, or ad hoc "master," and a lawyer for the respondent are appointed and go into the lockup at the county jail to hold "hearings" which are recorded for review, if there is an appellate challenge. On the one hand it seems pretty medieval. On the other hand you've got profoundly disturbed folks who are brought in on a sworn affidavit, examined by two health care professionals, are locked into a holding cell, generally filthy, sometimes in piles of their own waste, sometimes actually, obviously dangerous to everybody within reach . . . oh, and they have threatened to kill somebody, themselves, or some other person. How else do you handle it? I do not want a dead person, suicide or murder victim, on my conscience because I did not believe what TWO medical doctors/psychologists/nurse practitioners said when they wrote "danger to him/herself" on a certificate. We live in a poor state but wherever you go the judge, elected or otherwise, is not going to second-guess mental health professionals.
 

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I note with sub-adult glee that in his mugshot, the Q-Club shooter looks to have been beaten before the police arrived.
Don't be too gleeful. I think the guy/gal/nonbinary object was suffering right along. A good a$$ whipping in custody was the least of its pain.

Public defenders representing the accused shooter disclosed in court papers made public late on Tuesday that their client identified as nonbinary and used they-them pronouns. One footnote in the filings said that “for the purposes of all formal filings,” their client “will be addressed as Mx. Aldrich.”

I'm old enough to remember Mr., Miss, and Mrs. Then there was Ms. I gotta say Mx. is a new one on me. How does one say "Mx.?" "Mix," perhaps?

We used to have a fairly politically incorrect phrase "crazy as a s**t-house rat." I fear poor Mx. Aldrich might have fallen into that category long ago. It obviously hated itself sufficient to lash out lethally at folks it perceived to be kindred souls . . . . Oops, do its have souls? Can its experience self-hatred? This whole thing is pretty confusing. I'm thinking a mental health problem, but what do I know?
 

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When you realize that magazine limitations, red flag laws, "assault weapon" bans, and any other limitations on the owning and carrying of a firearm have absolutely no intention of making the public safer you will have reached enlightenment.
 

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Gents,

Just an observation, but our latest Colorado mass shooting/shooter was (once again) a failure of the system to have people, who should have been reported and tracked being able to buy a gun and commit the crime. The shooter had been documented as having made bomb threats, against a family member, and was known to Law Enforcement.

Wes
Behind Enemy Lines in Oregon
Sorry had to snip.

This is an example of the system NOT being broken.

I know this seems to be contrarian but you need to think this through...
The kid was never charged over the bomb threats. No psych evals, nothing.

Since the family didn't press charges... there is no legal reason to take the guns away.
That's the problem. You know the kid is a ticking time bomb, Or rather a potential ticking time bomb.

No charges, no trial, nothing to stop him legally from getting a gun.
Were there to be something, It would be abused by anti-2A politicians who would abuse it.

Sorry.
 
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