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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok guys, I got this info straight from the original importer of the ONLY preban M14s.
These were all imported before the 1989 ban that cut off the imports of AKs, Fals, and all semi versionsof military firearms that accept a hi-cap mag, and have any of the following:
Night sights
bayo lug
Folding/telescoping stocks
flashhider/threaded muzzle
grenade launcher
pistolgrip
integral bipod

Now, KENGS FIREARMS imported ALL 200 of the ORIGINAL preban M14/S models, and will be marked as follows:
the Polytech markings and serial number will be on the rear top of the receiver like a factory M14, or Springfield M1A. The Importer will be something like KFI, Stone Mt GA

if the model and serial # are marked in any other location, or any other importer, then the gun is POST BAN and cannot have a flashhider or bayonet lug on it.


LEGAL LOOPHOLE TIME :lol:

Now, before November of 1990 it was 100% legal to drop the flashhider with bayo lug on the gun, and restore the gun to "preban" specs.
However, in 11/90 Section 922(r) of the GCA came into effect.
primarily, and as such:
Title 18 U.S.C., Chapter 44, Section 922(r) provides that it shall
be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any
semiautomatic rifle or shotgun which is identical to any rifle or
shotgun prohibited from importation under 18 U.S.C., Chapter 44,
Section 925(d)(3), as not being particularly suitable for or
readily adaptable to sporting purposes.


these parts include, and are restricted to:
(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings
or stampings
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks (trunnions)
(5) Muzzle attachments
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Buttstocks
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floorplates


so, BEFORE sept 13th 1994, the date of the AW ban, you could have replaced a certain amount of FOREIGN parts with US MADE parts to make your Polyteck M14S a DOMESTIC GUN.....nice eh?
the AW Ban said its illegal to "manufacture" any rifle with a detachable magazine(of any size) if it has more than ONE of the following:
pistolgrip
grenade launcher
bayolug
threaded muzzle/ flashhider
folding or collapsing stock

however, AFTER the AW ban, the most "banned features" you can have is 1, so....if you replace enough Chinese parts with USGI parts, you are clean to put a flashhider (with no bayonet lug) on the gun.
you would optimally need to replace 7 parts on the rifle to be flashhider legal.

Easiest parts to replace?
Magazine( body, follower and baseplate) 3 parts
USGI trigger group(hammer, trigger,disconnector) 3 parts
USGI stock(1or 2 parts, not quite sure, buttstock and forearm) 1 part
USGI handguard 1 part
USGI postban flashhider 1 part
USGI gas piston 1 part
USGI Op Rod 1 part

use any 7 of the above parts and you can now have the real flashhider on your M14s, so it will certainly look better!

just wanted to pass this on, didn't see this info anywhere else.
Have fun!
 

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Appreciate the headsup there sir ...

Interesting facts ... :wink:

Six
 

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JayB,
Would it be safe to say then that PolyTech M14s rifles marked as such on the receiver heel are to be considered preban, and that all PolyTech's marked on the side of the receiver are Post ban? If so, if you were to have your rifle with a heel marked receiver rebuilt using GI parts after September,1994, could you still legally have a flash hider on the rifle.

Was the importer marking on preban rifles on the barrel or the receiver?

Regards

Ox
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Some further info...

Ox,
the ONLY preban m14/s that Norinco imported are imported by Kengs Firearms, aka KFI. If the gun is marked on teh heel of the receiver, AND has the KFI Stone mt GA markings, its a real preban, and can have the flashhider, and the bayolug, and be put in a E2 stock with the pistolgrip, etc, even if you rebuild with US parts.
I fail to remember exactly where KFI put their importer info, but its probably on the receiver.

the Postban guns are marked on the left rear side, and I think it says KDI, Whitefield MI or something, along with the model number and serial #. these will have the silly faux flashhider.

If you have a postban gun, and have the gun rebuilt with enough US parts, you can put the flashhider ONLY on....at least until the stupid AW ban ends. If it ends, you can put all the "bad" stuff on:)
You only need to rebuild the POST ban rifles, not the prebans.

dont take the markings on the heel of the receiver as the only thing to ID a preban, Polytech IS importing the M14S into Canada at this time, its unknown what the markings on those are, i have no doubt that those will make it across the border in one way or another.
They may be marked as M14/s also.

hope this cleared things up!
 

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JayB,
I can't remember what the import markings were on my PolyTech. I do remember that they were located on the barrel. I bought the rifle used in early 1994 for $275.00. It was one of the ones with the chopped flash hidder and marked on the heel. In 1996 I sent it off to Fulton Armory for the works. The only original Chinese part on the rifle is the receiver. I remember talking to Clint McKee at Fulton. He mentioned to me that he didn't see many heel marked receivers. That mirrors my experience also, and almost every PolyTech I have seen has the fake flash hidder and is marked on the side of the receiver. At a gun show in 1990 I stopped and talked to a guy who was carring a PolyTech to sell. I remember that it had a flash hidder with bayonet lug and also that the finish was a black park, not the gray park that is commonly seen on PolyTechs. Have you or anyone else seen an original black parked PolyTech?

Regards

Ox
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
hmmmm...

cant be sure about that one, the only models i have seen that had teh chopped flashhider, and no bayolug were modified for New jersey use, where flashhider meant assault weapon, thus banned.
Cant really comment on that one, but if yours was rebuilt before the ban, its a bonafide preban now;-)

per teh one in 1990, like I said before, before 89 Kengs imported some in preban form, after 89 til 11/90 it was OK to put the preban flashhider back on, an have it considerd preban.
As for the park color, i have seen m14/s that are green, black, and gray, it all depends what oil soak did to them.

My FFL has a Chinese one on teh wall now that I may buy to rebuild as a "bush" rifle, he only wants $700.

I have to pick up my preban AK, and my Smith Corona Springfield 03-A3 before that tho;-)
 

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If the bans sunsets...

If the bans sunsets...what legal loopholes will be available :?:

Methinks with the 7 US parts, all will be available.
 

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Great info, thanks.

Question - if your Poly isn't marked by that importer but it came to you with a USGI FS (incl. bayo lug) on it, how do you know whether or not it was replaced before Nov. 1990? :?
 

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quaq please not that the quotes section mkes assembly a crime but not possession. if you bought the rifle used there is no way you can verify one way or another when it was built up.
 

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IT'S NOT A TUMOR 8O

Er :oops: IT's not a loophole, :evil: it's COMPLIANCE. In order to COMPLY with the law. :)

So much for the rant.

Here's the scoop:


Sec. 178.39 Assembly of semiautomatic rifles or shotguns.

(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.

(c) For purposes of this section, the term imported parts are:

(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)
(5) Muzzle attachments
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
[8] Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10] Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Buttstocks
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards
(18] Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20] Floorplates

[T.D. ATF-346, 58 FR 40589, July 29, 1993]


:evil: :? :roll: 8O :(
 

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Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations has expanded quite a bit since 1990. :roll: If you look at the latest version (2003) :roll: you'll find the "appropriate" regulation at 27 CFR 478.39. :roll:

Yes, Mommy. I brushed my teeth. :roll: :lol:
 

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Ok so you are saying that no true preban polys exist with out markings on the heel. My question is what do you know about Norincos? Mine wasn't marked on the heel. It is preban. I bought it before the ban so it doesn't get any easier than that. What's the scoop on them if anyone knows? I already knew the import thing for fal's and such but this is good info on the poly I didn't know.
One thing that' s got me wondering though is why the government ever let the yugo sks in the country the last few years. Not that I am complaining but that thing has so many of the evil features on it it's kinda funny. Although it doesn't have a detachable mag. Well not really.
 

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I hope the following is of some help. JayB was able to give me a piece of the puzzle that I needed to get this situation fairly well nailed. The following is still subject to revision but here's what I've got so far on U. S. law and Chinese M14 rifles in my write up:


B) Export of Chinese M14 Rifles - Chinese semi-automatic M14 rifles have been exported to Canada, Norway and the United States for sale to private owners (Marstar and at BattleRifles.com). Marstar (Vankleek Hill, Ontario) imports Norinco M305 rifles into Canada. The Norinco M305 rifles imported by Marstar have the slotted flash suppressor and scope mount recoil lug (marstar.ca). Three companies imported Chinese M14 rifles into the United States between 1988 and September, 1994. Keng's Firearms (Stone Mountain, GA) and IDE (Southfield, MI) imported Polytech Industries M14 type rifles. Century Arms International (St. Albans, VT) imported both Polytech Industries rifles and Norinco M14 type rifles and receivers (Poyer). Keng’s Firearms was the first importer of Chinese M14 type rifles. Keng’s Firearms imported a number of Polytech Industries M14/S rifles into the United States prior to the March 14, 1989 import ban. They were the only company to import Chinese M14 type rifles into the United States prior to March 14, 1989 (JayB from m14forum.com referencing correspondence with Keng’s Firearms).

C) U. S. Law and the Chinese M14 Rifle - The U. S. Department of Treasury import ban of March 14, 1989 affected the Chinese M14 rifles brought into the United States (Bardwell). After the import ban, Chinese M14 type rifles entered the US market with a rubber recoil pad instead of the butt plate, the bayonet lug ground off, the flash suppressor castle nut welded on and the flash suppressor either removed or installed without the open slots. Until November 30, 1990 though one could install imported parts that would restore the Chinese M14 type rifle to a configuration prohibited from export after March 14, 1989 (Bardwell). On November 30, 1990 the assembly of imported rifles using imported parts to circumvent the import ban became illegal (Public Law 101-647 and 18 USC 44 922 r). The BATF published regulations “to implement 18 U. S. C. section 922 (r)” (Bardwell). These regulations prohibit the assembly of a semi-automatic rifle (or shotgun) using more than ten specified imported parts if that firearm was banned from importation after March 14, 1989 (27 CFR 478.39 April 01, 2003 revision). So, after November 29, 1990 the importer or owner of a Chinese M14 type rifle could have replaced a sufficient number of Chinese parts with USGI parts to domesticate the rifle thereby allowing the installation of a slotted flash suppressor with bayonet lug, and pistol grip stock or folding stock. This would have been legal under federal law until September 13, 1994. On September 13, 1994 the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act went into effect. After September 13, 1994 all semi-automatic M14 type rifles are allowed only one specified feature if assembled on or after that date (18 USC 44 921 a (30)). Typically, this is the lugless slotted flash suppressor. If a sufficient number of specified Chinese parts are replaced with USGI parts on a Chinese M14 type rifle after September 13, 1994 a lugless slotted flash suppressor would be permissible under federal law (27 CFR 478.39 April 01, 2003 revision). Chinese (and American) semi-automatic M14 type rifles must otherwise comply with the September 13, 1994 ban on features. Consult federal, state and local laws prior to replacing any parts. Additionally, after the March 14, 1989 import ban Armscorp, Federal Ordnance and Century Arms International assembled M14 type rifles using American made receivers and Chinese parts sets.

Polytech Industries M14 type rifles in the United States are generally regarded as pre-94 ban. Some of the Norinco M14 type rifles were sold prior to 09/13/94 and some were warehoused by the importer then sold after 09/13/94. It is best for the owner of a Chinese M14 type rifle to check with the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives regarding whether it was assembled before or after September 13, 1994.

D) Markings of Exported Chinese M14 Rifles - The earliest Polytech Industries and Norinco manufacturer and model markings are marked on the receiver heel. Heel markings have been observed on Polytech Industries M14/S rifles with serial numbers as high as 028XX (m14forum.com). Serial numbers of Chinese M14 rifles are usually stamped above the stock line on the scope mount side. A very few Norinco rifles imported into the United States have no manufacturer stamping whatsoever. Norinco M14 type rifle model numbers are M-14, M14 Sporter and M305. Some Norinco M14 type rifles have the marking CJA SFLD MICH on the side of the receiver. This marking has been found on Norinco M14 type rifles imported into both the United States and Canada (BattleRifles.com). The Polytech Industries model number is denoted M14/S. Polytech Industries rifles have a better reputation for receiver surface machining and finish over the Norinco stamped rifles (Poyer).

The following range of serial numbers have been observed on Norinco and Polytech Industries M14 type rifles in the United States by members of the battlerifles.com and m14forum.com discussion boards:

Norinco M-14, M14 Sporter - 00006 to 960XX
Polytech Industries M14/S - 0127 to 226XX
 

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Different
A very few Norinco rifles imported into the United States have no manufacturer stamping whatsoever.
I have one of these, Any date when these were imported and who actually brought these in. What I am reading here is there is a double standard All U.S. manufactured M14 clones prior to 94 can have all the goodies but all chicom M14 can have all the goodies only if assembled before 90. This just doesnt make sense in the fact one didnt start seeing nuetered AKs till the 94 ban which actully dealt with the evil features. Am I wrong about this. For the life of me I cant think of any time where the 89 ban was mentioned with AKs only the 94 for evil features. But what I have read here the chicom Aks should be affected too. I think the rationaliztion that people have and I fall into this catagory for simplicity is that the 89 ban dealt with importation of chicoms and some otheres where as the 94 dealt with the evil features and therefor that is the cut between pre and post. Between 89 and 94 is grey area but after 94 it is black and white.
 

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Steve k, AFAIK Century Arms was the company who imported Norinco rifles into the United States. I hope to get some more information on the Chinese M14 rifles in April. I'll add that new information into my write up and you will see it when it gets posted.

Between 11/90 and 09/94 one could have installed enough USGI parts to make a Chicom M14 legal to sport a slotted flash suppressor, bayonet lug and folding stock. We are not out of the woods yet but it looks like the AW Ban is going to sunset. As Martha would say, "This is a good thing." :lol:

I used to frequent AK47.net several years ago. Yes, the AK guys talked about installing sufficient number of parts to have a flash hider (after 1990) but again that all had to be done prior to 09/13/94. Since it is so long after 1994 it is a moot point now just like you can no longer Form 1 your AR-15 into a select fire M16.

Laws are often unfair and arbitrary but I'm preaching to the choir. Know the laws, write your elected officials on matters that concern you and vote every time you are lawfully eligible. Educate your friends and family, pay your taxes, stay out of trouble and make as much money as you can. Discern the times you live in as well. Develop relationships with a number of folks whom you can count on in "emergencies." :wink: My $0.02.
 

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Well put Different beat them at there level at the poll VOTE PEOPLE!!!!!!! let's beat this thing and put it in the grave IMHO Fred
 

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Chinese m14 s are they jewels or are they crap?

I have seen quite a few over the past 15 years and here is what I think. Let's suppose that you were an arms dealer and you had many m14's that were of military configuration that you could not bring into the United States. The profit would be high if you could get them into the United States by modifying them to fit the law. Reports on the in the Internet indicate that 750,000 m14s were shipped out of the United States by the government. Add to that the thousands which were left in Korea and other spots around the world. The guns existed in great numbers but they could not come back where American consumers were anxious to buy them. It is my belief that the Chinese simply took USGI guns and ground off the heel markings and all other designations of origin. These markings required only a few thousanths of grinding to eliminate them. It was then simple to stamp them with a different brand name like Norinco or Polytech. The laws kept changing and the modification required to fall within the law also changed. R Removal of flash hiders. ETC

A substantial industry was created to modify USGI rifles that existed in the country at the time that modified guns were first imported as Chinese guns. There is a good chance that they were just military rifles re stamped and modified to fit the law. People who modified rifles of known originn in the United States put out the word that these Chinese rifles were crap except for the wonderful forged receiver. Does it stand to believe that a wonderful receiver would be filled with crap parts? The word was put out that the bolts and other parts were defective and heat treat and steel were poor and just plain dangerous. For a fee these defects could be cured. A new bolt could be fitted and new barrel could be fitted and the headspace could be checked.
Above is what I think now what I know. My experiences have been good with Polytech and Norinco stamped rifles. I have a heel only marked Polytec.

I am NOT saying that all imports are the same or that they are great rifles. I am saying that some are probably USGI rifles modified and reintroduced. Every good one that I have seen has had a serial number on the bolt. The serial number is completely out of range of the receiver serial number. This could be explained by the receiver serial number being modified just like a thief modifying the serial number on an engine in a stolen car.
 
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