M14 Forum banner

1 - 20 of 178 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
840 Posts
Lately Burns has been allowing his progressive politics to morph more or less into an agenda, so I am not as hopeful for an honest look. I doubt he will be disrespectful to those who served, but I am betting there will be plenty of inches and angles of distortion to support a subtle progressive liberal theme.

For example, in a 2016 interview he shows where this is headed when he asserts that
"there w[ere] a disproportionate number of African Americans serving in combat roles and therefore being wounded and killed. ... But the larger thing is that Vietnam represents a kind of microcosm of America in the ’60s." I have heard this sort of nonsense asserted by SJWs in the past, yet the Department of Defense reported in "US Casualties in Southeast Asia by Grade and Military Service, Hostile and Non-Hostile Deaths from 1 January 1961 through 31 December 1978 by Race" that 12.5 percent of the men who died in Vietnam were black and12.1 percent of the men who were killed in actual battle were black, while the percentage of blacks of military age was 13.5 percent of the population.

He also has a very favorable view of Cassius Clay, who to me is anything but a hero, his ability as a boxer notwithstanding. Rocky Bleier and Roger Staubach are heros, Cassius Clay is Jane Fonda with boxing skills.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
354 Posts
I will withhold judgement on the film until I see it, but I'm thinking it will miss the mark much like the 2007 "The War".

Burns and Novick tout that they interviewed thousands of people on both sides, but did not interview John Kerry, John McCain and Jane Fonda and they are not in the film except for exposure in newsreels. Why not? Because they are too toxic and might sink the film.

Lynn Novick has as much input into this film as Burns. She is a New York Liberal and you know how liberals like revisionist history.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
608 Posts
Lately Burns has been allowing his progressive politics to morph more or less into an agenda, so I am not as hopeful for an honest look. I doubt he will be disrespectful to those who served, but I am betting there will be plenty of inches and angles of distortion to support a subtle progressive liberal theme.

For example, in a 2016 interview he shows where this is headed when he asserts that
"there w[ere] a disproportionate number of African Americans serving in combat roles and therefore being wounded and killed. ... But the larger thing is that Vietnam represents a kind of microcosm of America in the ’60s." I have heard this sort of nonsense asserted by SJWs in the past, yet the Department of Defense reported in "US Casualties in Southeast Asia by Grade and Military Service, Hostile and Non-Hostile Deaths from 1 January 1961 through 31 December 1978 by Race" that 12.5 percent of the men who died in Vietnam were black and12.1 percent of the men who were killed in actual battle were black, while the percentage of blacks of military age was 13.5 percent of the population.

He also has a very favorable view of Cassius Clay, who to me is anything but a hero, his ability as a boxer notwithstanding. Rocky Bleier and Roger Staubach are heros, Cassius Clay is Jane Fonda with boxing skills.
This comment is spot on. Every movie, documentary produced in the last 30-40 years is laced progressive propaganda or is an outright progressive propaganda film. Almost every examination of Vietnam is this way. There is always a massive overemphasis on discrimination against minorities, minority contributions to perceived positive developments, to protesters and their alleged "contribution" to whatever it is they supposedly contributed, the ineptitude of war-mongering right wingers (or, in the case of Vietnam, white males since they wouldn't indict the Democrat party in any way) in the political and military spheres, etc.

I'm sure there will be portions worth watching, but the liberal agenda will definitely be there in copious amounts.

Cassius Clay was no hero.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,073 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
I understand and agree with the comments above. I learned about Ken when I watched his ( Yankee ) version of his Civil War series. It still may have some interesting videos.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,073 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
I'm curious... does the "southern" version have the south win? GI2
Well He!! Yeah! And a few things were changed!

1. The capital was moved from DC to Thomastown, MS
2. Every household is required to own firearms
3. The national beverage is Pabst Blue Ribbon
4. The national food is now Fried Chicken with a Moon Pies & RC Cola
5. In addition to MNF there is Sunday Night Nascar
6. The presidential limo is a stretch pickup truck
7. Every city required to have a rebel statue or monument
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,441 Posts
The schedule is out:

1 "“Déjà Vu”" (1858 – 1961) September 17, 2017
After a century of French occupation, Vietnam emerges independent but divided into North and South.

2 "“Riding the Tiger”" (1961 – 1963) September 18, 2017
As a communist insurgency gains strength, JFK wrestles with American involvement in South Vietnam.

3 "“The River Styx”" (January 1964 – December 1965) September 19, 2017
With South Vietnam near collapse, LBJ begins bombing the North and sends US troops to the South.

4 "“Resolve”" (January 1966 – June 1967) September 20, 2017
US soldiers discover Vietnam is unlike their fathers’ war, while the antiwar movement grows.

5 "“This Is What We Do”" (July 1967 – December 1967) September 21, 2017
President Johnson escalates the war while promising the public that victory is in sight.

6 "“Things Fall Apart”" (January 1968 – July 1968) September 24, 2017
Shaken by the Tet Offensive, assassinations and unrest, America seems to be coming apart.

7 "“The Veneer of Civilization”" (June 1968 – May 1969) September 25, 2017
After chaos roils the Democratic Convention, Nixon, promising peace, narrowly wins the presidency.

8 "“The History of the World”" (April 1969 – May 1970) September 26, 2017
Nixon withdraws troops but when he sends forces into Cambodia the antiwar movement reignites.

9 "“A Disrespectful Loyalty”" (May 1970 – March 1973) September 27, 2017
South Vietnam fights on its own as Nixon and Kissinger find a way out for America. The POWs return.

10 "“The Weight of Memory”" (March 1973 – Onward) September 28, 2017
Saigon falls and the war ends. Americans and Vietnamese from all sides search for reconciliation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Vietnam_War_(film)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,284 Posts
Hope this thread stays alive past its running so the men here who fought this War can correct any/all potential inaccuracies. Never heard of these two producers, but if they're cultural marxists it may well be distorted (again).

I was in high school during second half of the 60's, but know through my brother Army 9th Inf., 68-69 with Tet in the middle of his tour, cousin John USMC 3/3 (still have his letters) who almost died on the USS Repose just before 3/3 was ordered out, that the ONLY thing "lost" was the will, once again, by those elected to chairs at Mordor on the Potomac. A now Dead Beat theme. Also had the opportunity to meet and become friends with Rick Rescorla (documented in the chronology of Ia Drang under Hal Moore who recently passed away) who became Chief of Security for Dean Witter Reynolds (now Morgan Stanley) and was credited via direct observation on 9/11 with personally guiding over 2,000 souls to safety. He didn't make it. He, a customer of mine while with AT&T, explained to me the political unwinding of what many of you had won through the Tet Offensive and beyond which signalled the defeat of VC/NVA forces and what was subsequently done to squander the sacrifice many of you here made against way too many political handicaps. He became a student of this part of the war and what he detailed to me flowed easy maybe because we had the same sick sarcastic sense of humor. It deserves complete accuracy and it never encompasses anything close to that "we lost". Waiting to see how this one documents.

Off topic, but for those unfamiliar with Rick Rescorla is a video about him. My life is better for him too. Didn't know until after learning he was killed why he was called "The Prophet"... https://www.awesomestories.com/asset/view/Rick-Rescorla-Saved-2-687-Lives-on-September-11
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,284 Posts
yeah, that statement about the percentage of black folks KIA is total crap. here's the best breakdown of KIA i've ever seen

https://www.militaryfactory.com/vietnam/casualties.asp
Good accounting, but omitted was/is USMC Danny Bullock who lived not far from us in Brooklyn... http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn-marine-15-killed-vietnam-article-1.2003597

Just notified Militaryfactory an e-mail at the address shown at bottom of the page. Hope they read it and document this Marine. There are some utubes about him... one by another Marine who was with him the night he was killed running ammo back to his bunker, fully exposed, during the early morning hours at An Hoa combat base, Quang Nam Province 6/7/1969. He was laid to rest at his birthplace in North Carolina - his grave maintained by local Marines. The stone was donated by the TV talk show host Sally Jesse Raphael. The kid was (15) years old. Surprised his story and picture from the blatant leftist NY Daily News during 2014.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,863 Posts
Given the prejudices of the networks any factual documentary on the war would be highly unlikely. I served with many excellent black Marines and a lot of this had to do with our unit cohesiveness and standard of leadership. After my time, buddies who were Army officers and belong to my post had an entirely different reality to deal with and discipline deteriorated to the level that the Army issued a moratorium on black courts martial during '68 or '69. Those affected were typically draftees. One of the first things our DI's told us while we were still standing on the yellow footprints was that "I'm laughing because every one of you WANTS TO BE HERE!" That was over fifty-six years ago but he clearly had a point. I have lost and continue to lose so many buddies from Agent Orange-related cancers that recalling the war has become even more painful.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
342 Posts
I'll be following this thread during this series. A lot of folks on here were there. It will be interesting to compare real vs. hollywood.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
203 Posts
Lately Burns has been allowing his progressive politics to morph more or less into an agenda, so I am not as hopeful for an honest look. I doubt he will be disrespectful to those who served, but I am betting there will be plenty of inches and angles of distortion to support a subtle progressive liberal theme.

For example, in a 2016 interview he shows where this is headed when he asserts that
"there w[ere] a disproportionate number of African Americans serving in combat roles and therefore being wounded and killed. ... But the larger thing is that Vietnam represents a kind of microcosm of America in the ’60s." I have heard this sort of nonsense asserted by SJWs in the past, yet the Department of Defense reported in "US Casualties in Southeast Asia by Grade and Military Service, Hostile and Non-Hostile Deaths from 1 January 1961 through 31 December 1978 by Race" that 12.5 percent of the men who died in Vietnam were black and12.1 percent of the men who were killed in actual battle were black, while the percentage of blacks of military age was 13.5 percent of the population.

He also has a very favorable view of Cassius Clay, who to me is anything but a hero, his ability as a boxer notwithstanding. Rocky Bleier and Roger Staubach are heros, Cassius Clay is Jane Fonda with boxing skills.
Thanks for ruining it for me.GI1
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
218 Posts
wonder if they will mention anything like this

*BOBO, JOHN P.
Rank and organization: Second Lieutenant, U.S. Marine Corps Reserve, 3d Battalion, 9th Marines, 3d Marine Division (Rein), FMF. Place and date: Quang Tri Province, Republic of Vietnam, 30 March 1967. Entered service at: Buffalo, N.Y. Born: 14 February 1943, Niagara Falls, N.Y. Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty. Company I was establishing night ambush sites when the command group was attacked by a reinforced North Vietnamese company supported by heavy automatic weapons and mortar fire. 2d Lt. Bobo immediately organized a hasty defense and moved from position to position encouraging the outnumbered marines despite the murderous enemy fire. Recovering a rocket launcher from among the friendly casualties, he organized a new launcher team and directed its fire into the enemy machine gun positions. When an exploding enemy mortar round severed 2d Lt. Bobo's right leg below the knee, he refused to be evacuated and insisted upon being placed in a firing position to cover the movement of the command group to a better location. With a web belt around his leg serving as a tourniquet and with his leg jammed into the dirt to curtail the bleeding, he remained in this position and delivered devastating fire into the ranks of the enemy attempting to overrun the marines. 2d Lt. Bobo was mortally wounded while firing his weapon into the main point of the enemy attack but his valiant spirit inspired his men to heroic efforts, and his tenacious stand enabled the command group to gain a protective position where it repulsed the enemy onslaught. 2d Lt. Bobo's superb leadership, dauntless courage, and bold initiative reflected great credit upon himself and upheld the highest traditions of the Marine Corps and the U.S. Naval Service. He gallantly gave his life for his country.
 
1 - 20 of 178 Posts
Top