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108 Posts
Yep. We've work over in the Greenville area a little. I've got a unit to install over on Cooper Lake and a install to look at about 6 miles south of Sulphur Springs. I'm an electrician and my son is Generac tech.
OK, knee-jerk reaction... House Generator
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108 Posts
I've never seen a Generac that didn't have a charging system. The older models had a battery charger that plugged into the controller and wired into the post on the battery. The air cooled units 24kw on down have a built in charger in the controller now. Everything on the generator is controlled by the controller. The controller is one of the most common parts we replace. Power surges and lightning play havoc with them.
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7,577 Posts
I have that exact unit. I had it installed last July. My unit has been solid so far. No complaints at all. It’s done it’s job 5 or 6 times already since install. I think I paid $7300 installed. With a 5 year maintenance agreement on top of the normal guarantee. They took care of getting the permit and everything else. 2 guys installed it in about 6 hours. Mine runs on natural gas. It does a self test exercise once a week but you have an app on your phone if you want to manually run a test or monitor it remotely if you travel.
There is a sense of calm relaxation knowing you will have AC in the summer, heat in the winter, lights, sump pump . And all automatic.
We’re all getting older.
Maybe you will need a medical device that needs that power. Even if it’s a Cpap machine.
Go for it.
There is a sense of calm relaxation knowing you will have AC in the summer, heat in the winter, lights, sump pump . And all automatic.
We’re all getting older.
Maybe you will need a medical device that needs that power. Even if it’s a Cpap machine.
Go for it.
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95 Posts
Exact same thing I did. Worked great.
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4,973 Posts
I've been considering a back up generator. Currently I drag a 10 kw "portable" out of the garage to the house and run extension cords through a couple slightly raised windows (then we tape up the gap to keep out most of the cold air.)
Works the refrigerators, freezer, lights, TV, etc. Working on a way to hook up the 240 volt outlet so we can run the well pump, too (next time).
Won't run the heat pumps though (maybe one, but then it won't run the rest of the stuff.) The propane gas fireplace on this side of the house kept this side warm.
My youngest son works on generators for a living. Whole house size to the big ones that run government buildings, schools, server farms, etc. He has his preferences based on how often they have to drive somewhere to work on the generators.
Some of them are easier to work on because they are pretty computerized and he can connect his laptop and "see" trends in the information the computer collects while the generator was running or trying to start. Big heads up on what to start checking. But, the ones he really likes are the old diesels with the John Deere and Perkins engines. Not so fancy, not as electronically enhanced as the new ones, but some of them are 20 to 30 years old and still running. Sure, they need maintenance now and then, but they just keep going.
A frequent issue with the natural gas and propane powered units are the gas pressure regulator valves. In cold weather they'll freeze up, restricting gas flow from the tank to the engine. The generator gets the signal to start (when utility power shuts off/goes down) but it can't fire up and run because the pressure regulator valve won't open up enough to supply the necessary volume of gas to run. Then there's the piping issues. If you've ever messed with water pipes, or pressurized are pipes with the number of joints, elbows, pipe diameters, etc. then understand gas/propane can have the same issue. Gas pressure when the unit isn't running is no guarantee of gas pressure (or supply volume) once the unit tries to start up/run.
The kid likes diesel generators. He's about got me convinced to go diesel.
Look up some info before you decide on power source/fuel. What little bit of looking I've done seems to tell me (right now today):
A diesel back up generator will cost me more than a propane/natural gas generator (buying one).
Same money to install one.
Diesel is cheaper than propane around here, right now. Off road diesel is cheaper than what you buy at the gas station for you truck/car, right now.
The diesel generators seem to use less fuel per hour. Confirm that based on size of the unit you buy.
My first step is go install a solar cell system. Way more expensive than a back up whole house generator, but I can run it pretty much daily. It will make more electricity than we use on the average day (average day of power generator/average day of electricity use). The size/number of battery plates we're having installed will run things all night and more as long as the previous day or two were sunny/bright enough. A solar power system/batteries won't start heat pumps, well pumps, etc. due to the start up amps required, but will run them (as long as it's less than a 30 amp draw) once they start up from the utility power (if you have utility power).
Not going to tell you I understand solar cell power generation. The more I hear, the more questions I have. I will tell you we talked to three companies. I was told contrasting things by different sales/technical reps. As I talked to the next company rep. I had questions based on what I'd previously heard. I didn't get answers from some of them. I got promises to look into it and get back to me with delays of a week or so to no replies at all. The company we went with had a sales/technical guy (the one that visited our house) that would respond to my e-mails within 30 minutes to a couple hours every time I sent him an e-mail with questions. Impressed me greatly and we went with that company.
As I type, more things come back to me. One is a propane/natural gas generator warranty is likely longer than a diesel generator warranty (based on the ones I've looked at.)
One funny thing, one of the companies we looked at for solar was a Generac company (seems all of them we talked to use Generac batteries though) and that company told me they could also install a propane/natural gas back up generator. When I asked about a Generac diesel generator he told me he knew they sold them but his company didn't install them.
Good luck with whichever type of back up power system you go with. When you need it, you need it. Hope is works for you. Me? Dragging that 10 kw "portable" generator out of the garage through the snow/ice/mud last Saturday and hooking it up just about wore me out. Good thing it started on the 2nd pull of the rope (battery died sometime between Saturday and November when I started it up and let it run for about 30 minutes on the concrete in front of the garage) as I wasn't in the mood to pull the rope a bunch of times trying to get it started.
Works the refrigerators, freezer, lights, TV, etc. Working on a way to hook up the 240 volt outlet so we can run the well pump, too (next time).
Won't run the heat pumps though (maybe one, but then it won't run the rest of the stuff.) The propane gas fireplace on this side of the house kept this side warm.
My youngest son works on generators for a living. Whole house size to the big ones that run government buildings, schools, server farms, etc. He has his preferences based on how often they have to drive somewhere to work on the generators.
Some of them are easier to work on because they are pretty computerized and he can connect his laptop and "see" trends in the information the computer collects while the generator was running or trying to start. Big heads up on what to start checking. But, the ones he really likes are the old diesels with the John Deere and Perkins engines. Not so fancy, not as electronically enhanced as the new ones, but some of them are 20 to 30 years old and still running. Sure, they need maintenance now and then, but they just keep going.
A frequent issue with the natural gas and propane powered units are the gas pressure regulator valves. In cold weather they'll freeze up, restricting gas flow from the tank to the engine. The generator gets the signal to start (when utility power shuts off/goes down) but it can't fire up and run because the pressure regulator valve won't open up enough to supply the necessary volume of gas to run. Then there's the piping issues. If you've ever messed with water pipes, or pressurized are pipes with the number of joints, elbows, pipe diameters, etc. then understand gas/propane can have the same issue. Gas pressure when the unit isn't running is no guarantee of gas pressure (or supply volume) once the unit tries to start up/run.
The kid likes diesel generators. He's about got me convinced to go diesel.
Look up some info before you decide on power source/fuel. What little bit of looking I've done seems to tell me (right now today):
A diesel back up generator will cost me more than a propane/natural gas generator (buying one).
Same money to install one.
Diesel is cheaper than propane around here, right now. Off road diesel is cheaper than what you buy at the gas station for you truck/car, right now.
The diesel generators seem to use less fuel per hour. Confirm that based on size of the unit you buy.
My first step is go install a solar cell system. Way more expensive than a back up whole house generator, but I can run it pretty much daily. It will make more electricity than we use on the average day (average day of power generator/average day of electricity use). The size/number of battery plates we're having installed will run things all night and more as long as the previous day or two were sunny/bright enough. A solar power system/batteries won't start heat pumps, well pumps, etc. due to the start up amps required, but will run them (as long as it's less than a 30 amp draw) once they start up from the utility power (if you have utility power).
Not going to tell you I understand solar cell power generation. The more I hear, the more questions I have. I will tell you we talked to three companies. I was told contrasting things by different sales/technical reps. As I talked to the next company rep. I had questions based on what I'd previously heard. I didn't get answers from some of them. I got promises to look into it and get back to me with delays of a week or so to no replies at all. The company we went with had a sales/technical guy (the one that visited our house) that would respond to my e-mails within 30 minutes to a couple hours every time I sent him an e-mail with questions. Impressed me greatly and we went with that company.
As I type, more things come back to me. One is a propane/natural gas generator warranty is likely longer than a diesel generator warranty (based on the ones I've looked at.)
One funny thing, one of the companies we looked at for solar was a Generac company (seems all of them we talked to use Generac batteries though) and that company told me they could also install a propane/natural gas back up generator. When I asked about a Generac diesel generator he told me he knew they sold them but his company didn't install them.
Good luck with whichever type of back up power system you go with. When you need it, you need it. Hope is works for you. Me? Dragging that 10 kw "portable" generator out of the garage through the snow/ice/mud last Saturday and hooking it up just about wore me out. Good thing it started on the 2nd pull of the rope (battery died sometime between Saturday and November when I started it up and let it run for about 30 minutes on the concrete in front of the garage) as I wasn't in the mood to pull the rope a bunch of times trying to get it started.
Never had a pressure regulator freeze up on my propane system here in wisc and it's seen temps as low as -40*. I don't know where you live...maybe it get's colder than that.
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209 Posts
My heart and good wishes go out to anyone who has suffered through this weather crisis.
My own experience has been minimal but noteworthy. I am not very handy and our needs essentially are refrigeration/freezer and heat pump for natural gas-fired heat. With that in mind I held a 4000 Watt Dayton gasoline fueled, I believe Briggs & Stratton 10hp with a pull-cord starter, generator with a quart of oil in its original box in our outbuilding for eleven years, until the great ice storm of 1994. I unboxed it, put oil in its crankcase, screwed in spark plug and fired it up. I did need an electrician to connect the 220 outlet to my heat pump power source which was easy enough to do. An extension cord gave us power to the kitchen, fridge and freezer. When crisis finished, I drained crankcase, unscrewed spark plug and repainted the generator, the box was shot so I wrapped it, a quart of oil, and the instruction manual in plastic and moved it back outside where it remains. We were snowbound last week but did not lose power or water. Thankfully.
Everybody's situation is different but the most important thing, I think, is a plan. If we lose power, then . . . .
Obviously, you need a generator or solar grid or something, but you also need an idea of what to keep running and how.
Here's an interesting off-topic note. That "Made in USA" Dayton rig cost roughly $1400 if memory serves me well, circa 1982-83. In 2018, en route to our vacation house after Hurricane Michael, I bought a 3500 Watt "Champion" dual fuel generator, made in China, from Sam's. With a tank of propane and a quart of oil, I do not believe I spent $400. If you believe the AIER cost-of-living calculator, the Dayton product would cost about $3700 in today's dollars, about nine (9) times the newer, presumably better, Chinese product.
www.aier.org
My own experience has been minimal but noteworthy. I am not very handy and our needs essentially are refrigeration/freezer and heat pump for natural gas-fired heat. With that in mind I held a 4000 Watt Dayton gasoline fueled, I believe Briggs & Stratton 10hp with a pull-cord starter, generator with a quart of oil in its original box in our outbuilding for eleven years, until the great ice storm of 1994. I unboxed it, put oil in its crankcase, screwed in spark plug and fired it up. I did need an electrician to connect the 220 outlet to my heat pump power source which was easy enough to do. An extension cord gave us power to the kitchen, fridge and freezer. When crisis finished, I drained crankcase, unscrewed spark plug and repainted the generator, the box was shot so I wrapped it, a quart of oil, and the instruction manual in plastic and moved it back outside where it remains. We were snowbound last week but did not lose power or water. Thankfully.
Everybody's situation is different but the most important thing, I think, is a plan. If we lose power, then . . . .
Obviously, you need a generator or solar grid or something, but you also need an idea of what to keep running and how.
Here's an interesting off-topic note. That "Made in USA" Dayton rig cost roughly $1400 if memory serves me well, circa 1982-83. In 2018, en route to our vacation house after Hurricane Michael, I bought a 3500 Watt "Champion" dual fuel generator, made in China, from Sam's. With a tank of propane and a quart of oil, I do not believe I spent $400. If you believe the AIER cost-of-living calculator, the Dayton product would cost about $3700 in today's dollars, about nine (9) times the newer, presumably better, Chinese product.
Cost of Living Calculator: What is Your Dollar Worth Today?
What is your dollar worth today? Our Cost of Living Calculator, aka the COLA Calculator or Inflation Calculator, calculates the cost of living in the past and today.
www.aier.org
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3,671 Posts
We've used a PTO 15kw generator for 40 years to run our milking farm. Your 22kw unit will run all you could ask for. Brother-in-law has a propane generator that they have had longer than we've had ours and they have had no problems with it of any kind. It has a straight 6 ford engine in a heated shed (simple baseboard heater keeps it warm to ensure starting), auto transfer switch, 1,000 gallon propane tank (we have been know to loose power for several weeks at a time here), (natural gas is only available in the cities). Only problem we've had wit our PTO setup is our tractors are diesel and they don't like to start at -30 below zero. They have tank hgeaters but you never have them plugged in when the power goes out. Bought a 5kw portable to preheat the tractors and then a 10kw portable for the house. Buy a big enough unit to begin with and you will be happier.
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1,083 Posts
We did this on a new office building we built in 2005. My partner got a local guy to come spec out the needs and recommended a certain size, etc. It is a nice diesel generator. HOWEVER! He did not spec out the load with the AC running. We found that out during the first outage. We could keep the office running with no AC. That does not in Louisiana in the summer. I would get two or three quotes and specs on your load needs.
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7,577 Posts
Generac has an online tool for double checking your sizing requirements. AC and electric stove/ ovens are your primary draws.
unless you have special requirements a 22k is going to plenty. Don’t try to cut corners or size it close. It’s not that much more $$$ to go big or go home. Once you decide to do this, it doesn’t make sense to shop for the bargain size and creative alternatives.
You want it to work as designed and intended when you need it.
unless you have special requirements a 22k is going to plenty. Don’t try to cut corners or size it close. It’s not that much more $$$ to go big or go home. Once you decide to do this, it doesn’t make sense to shop for the bargain size and creative alternatives.
You want it to work as designed and intended when you need it.
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17,751 Posts
Generac revenue up 12.7% year over year, 2.49B$ for 2020.
They need to build a new plant in South Carolina to try to keep up with the demand for there home generator.
They need to build a new plant in South Carolina to try to keep up with the demand for there home generator.
Not only did that v10 Ford come without battery charging, we burnt up TWO control boards by trying to start it while jumping to a pickup & with battery chargers before somebody figured out it didn't charge the battery! This is a Generac unit!
Oh, and by the way, Never EVER turn the key to "On' or "Start" while you have jumpers or a charger hooked up to a computer controlled piece of equipment!
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3,612 Posts
I purchased a 6Kw attachment for our DR field and brush mower for a Lindal Cedar home that I built in the Seattle, WA area.
I connected a 4 prong outlet to the buss bars in my 200 Amp service entrance and to use the generator I turned the main breaker and all the branch circuit breakers off. I would then fire up the DR and engage the belt to the generator attachment and then engage whichever branch circuit breaks that I wanted to source.
I would test this system monthly during the winter months and load up the circuits that I wanted to operate. My heat source was propane so not much load. I would not energize my electric water heater but would heat up my well pump.
This system worked fine for several years without any major power outages. Finally we had the 'big one' and the power was going to be out for several days. So I isolated from the utility system and fired the system up with no event.
My former spousal unit wanted to charge her cell phone and plugged her charger in and at that exact moment the clutch on the brush mower grenaded!
The look on her face was priceless! But we were out of power for seven days.
I connected a 4 prong outlet to the buss bars in my 200 Amp service entrance and to use the generator I turned the main breaker and all the branch circuit breakers off. I would then fire up the DR and engage the belt to the generator attachment and then engage whichever branch circuit breaks that I wanted to source.
I would test this system monthly during the winter months and load up the circuits that I wanted to operate. My heat source was propane so not much load. I would not energize my electric water heater but would heat up my well pump.
This system worked fine for several years without any major power outages. Finally we had the 'big one' and the power was going to be out for several days. So I isolated from the utility system and fired the system up with no event.
My former spousal unit wanted to charge her cell phone and plugged her charger in and at that exact moment the clutch on the brush mower grenaded!
The look on her face was priceless! But we were out of power for seven days.
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108 Posts
Are you sure it didn't have a charger built into the controller? You have to pull a separate wire from T1 on the transfer switch and land it on the T1 terminal on the generator. If you don't the built in charger won't have power. There are 3 high voltage wires on most units. N1 and N2 are load sense and T1 is battery charger. They are fused at the transfer switch. Your other control wires are 0 , 194, 23 which are -12dc, +12dc and transfer.
We had the exact Generac 22k unit installed from Lowe’s 6 years ago, thru Lowe’s with my Veterans discount, used their promotional 6 months payoff credit plan. Price of basic unit with transfer switch has gone up, ours with discount was $3100.......we bought the extended warranty, which requires their semi annual service, kind of high. Had a lightning strike which took out fuses in transfer switch, service and replacement was included in warranty coverage. We chose to have a EMP protection device installed on house (which will intercept lighting as well) after house repaired. We had to convert house from propane to NG as NG is much cheaper and we were concerned about total propane storage and propane costs a lot more than NG these days. The 22k unit carries the whole house summer or winter, electric range, AC, clothes drier....but gas hot water and heat....we chose to purchase this because of our experience with no power for 8 days after the April 2011 tornados. We had a 3500 watt generator system for our camper which kept the refrigerator and freezer ok, but a snot of extension cords. Had to shut down and lock up at night......I recommend a back up generator for all houses in America.
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1,404 Posts
I've had the 17kw Generac for about 12+ years. And no issues at all. Well once I had to get a new battery. Been through hurricanes, frozen frigid storms that wrecked every thing, yet my 17kw just automatically came on and we went on with our lives. I have a 200gallon propane tank that will last just over a week, it uses about 2 gallons of propane during full load for 1 hour of lights. The Propane man tells me I should have a 500 gallon tank. But that's for later in my plans. Even though when you factor in pricing for emergency use, I don't care what it costs, as long as I can safely power the whole home no matter what the load and cost will be.
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4,973 Posts
My son said he sees the frozen/stuck pressure regulator valves often enough to aggravate the heck out of him. The scenario goes like this:
Utility power goes off at some customer, generator tries to start but doesn't. Sets alarm for cranking/not starting. Customer calls the company he works for or if set up better the system notifies the company electronically. He gets the work order, drives to the generator site and gets there after the temps go above freezing. Generator starts/runs fine after it warms up some. He tells the customer it's running fine and gets the reply, "What did you do?" He tells them he just hit the "start button" and it fired up and ran. They don't believe him. He explains about the pressure valves and tells them that some gas suppliers can add a system drying additive to the propane that will help stop that. Not all will do it.
He's gotten aggravated enough about stuff like that he will sometimes go out to a problem generator early enough in the morning (if it's one he can access before the customer's business starts) and videos the gas pressure gauge with his phone. Standard/normal pressure with the unit off, try to fire it up and the gas pressure drops off to the point where the engine will not run. Shows the video to the customer. Gas company won't come out to take care of issues the generator repair people call them about (most of the time) but will respond to the customer (most of the time.)
We only run out gas fire place early in the morning or when the power goes out during the cold months. We turn off the pilot light, too. The pressure valve won't be open as far with only the pilot light lit up (I think) vs. having the gas logs lit up nice and hot. I've found, recently, that if I know/remember it's going to be below freezing the next morning I'll turn the fireplace on the night before a few minutes and then turn it off while it's burning. The gas pressure valve stays open/in position for heating up the living room, not just for the pilot light running. At least that's my theory based on the few times I've remembered to do it the night before a below freezing morning.
Anyway, glad you're not having problems. I hate going outside in the dark when it's 20 F to pour warm water on the valve so my wife can light up the fire place.
Utility power goes off at some customer, generator tries to start but doesn't. Sets alarm for cranking/not starting. Customer calls the company he works for or if set up better the system notifies the company electronically. He gets the work order, drives to the generator site and gets there after the temps go above freezing. Generator starts/runs fine after it warms up some. He tells the customer it's running fine and gets the reply, "What did you do?" He tells them he just hit the "start button" and it fired up and ran. They don't believe him. He explains about the pressure valves and tells them that some gas suppliers can add a system drying additive to the propane that will help stop that. Not all will do it.
He's gotten aggravated enough about stuff like that he will sometimes go out to a problem generator early enough in the morning (if it's one he can access before the customer's business starts) and videos the gas pressure gauge with his phone. Standard/normal pressure with the unit off, try to fire it up and the gas pressure drops off to the point where the engine will not run. Shows the video to the customer. Gas company won't come out to take care of issues the generator repair people call them about (most of the time) but will respond to the customer (most of the time.)
We only run out gas fire place early in the morning or when the power goes out during the cold months. We turn off the pilot light, too. The pressure valve won't be open as far with only the pilot light lit up (I think) vs. having the gas logs lit up nice and hot. I've found, recently, that if I know/remember it's going to be below freezing the next morning I'll turn the fireplace on the night before a few minutes and then turn it off while it's burning. The gas pressure valve stays open/in position for heating up the living room, not just for the pilot light running. At least that's my theory based on the few times I've remembered to do it the night before a below freezing morning.
Anyway, glad you're not having problems. I hate going outside in the dark when it's 20 F to pour warm water on the valve so my wife can light up the fire place.
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Onan is owned by Cummins. If there is a Cummins dealer anywhere near you they can help. You buy the unit from them and have your electrician do the install. Cummins handles service/warranty. Might not be the cheapest option but mine has been flawless for ~7 years now.
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