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Not an AR guy .... need advice

2067 Views 42 Replies 23 Participants Last post by  Earthquake
On a local board a dude has the following listed :

Fresh .300 blk build...never fired. Gun will come as it sits with 1 mag.

10.5 inch barrel
DPMS lower
Cerro forge upper
Nickle boron bcg
Pantheon Arms free float MLOK handguard
Reptilia CQG grip
Defense research flash hider.

$600 or trade for a AR rifle in 5.56 or something that sparks my interest .......

Never owned an AR and not looking for a what it's worth kinda deal .....

But would dude get burnt too bad purchasing this ?

Thanks alot.
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Keep in mind just how expensive shooting 300 BO can be. Availability can be iffy at times, and when available it's considerably more expensive than 5.56.

Also be aware that AR-style pistols are... well, "funky" to shoot. Hard, if not impossible, for most shooters to actually shoot one-handed, most folks try to fire them like SBRs by getting the "arm brace" up to their shoulders and trying to find room for their face to get normal rifle sight alignment. I won't even try to describe some of the stuff I see on the range where I work when it comes to these things. Let's just say that everyone who has one really wants to make it an SBR or semi-auto SMG and the accessories that are legal to own and the shooting techniques they're forced to use as a compromise are only barely workable.

The whole "arm brace" issue is also on thin ice with the BATF and I don't think anyone will be surprised if they make them illegal with a "wave of the pen." Even acknowledging the many lawsuits now in progress over the BATF's arbitrary and un-Constitutional pseudo law-making practices that MIGHT eventually resolve the arm brace drama in favor of gun owners. Right now, though, arm braces are on the BATF chopping block alongside binary and forced reset triggers.

AR pistol owners need to be prepared for the worst.

The recommendations above for a regular AR-style rifle in 5.56 are good ones. Only get an AR pistol if you REALLY (REALLY!) want one because it's exactly what you want. It's no substitute for a regular AR rifle, and folks who try to skirt the BATF rules around SBRs and AR pistols are just asking for it, IMO.
 

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My son has a Wilson Combat AR in 300 BLK w/ suppressor. I have reloaded many heavy ( 220gr ) subsonic rounds and cost is similar to loading pistol rounds. For subsonic I would say fairly accurate at < 200yds..... better accuracy and range with supersonic bullets. Very, very quite and sounds like a pellet gun. I have never shot an AR pistol but shot his 300 BLK with one hand and not much recoil.
 

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I have several AR's to varying degree, all 5.56, and all as close to mil-spec as possible. I don't care for pistol variants or short barrels because they are a waste of potential...
This is not what I think but have heard from people that want the shorter versions, either pistol or SBR.

They wanted them for home defense because they are easy for people to be trained to shoot, fit all body types, and are easy to move around freely in the home.
 

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The is not what I think but have heard from people that want the shorter versions, either pistol or SBR.

They wanted them for home defense because they are easy for people to be trained to shoot, fit all body types, and are easy to move around freely in the home.
Then my advice would go with a pistol caliber AR carbine platform, or just go with a pistol...
 

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ARs generally are bought for life - who wants to risk buying a used rifle when new cost so little more. Buy a budget Palmetto State AR in .556 (~$400) and if later you still want to go 300BLK, you can test the waters by adding a bolt and barrel (or complete upper) and you will likely be into all that for only +$100 over the same money as the un-fired pistol above.
 

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ARs generally are bought for life - who wants to risk buying a used rifle when new cost so little more. Buy a budget Palmetto State AR in .556 (~$400) and if later you still want to go 300BLK, you can test the waters by adding a bolt and barrel (or complete upper) and you will likely be into all that for only +$100 over the same money as the un-fired pistol above.
PSA has AR-10 ( 308 ) for < $840! That's a pretty good bargain for the larger caliber.
 
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Keep in mind just how expensive shooting 300 BO can be. Availability can be iffy at times, and when available it's considerably more expensive than 5.56.

Also be aware that AR-style pistols are... well, "funky" to shoot. Hard, if not impossible, for most shooters to actually shoot one-handed, most folks try to fire them like SBRs by getting the "arm brace" up to their shoulders and trying to find room for their face to get normal rifle sight alignment. I won't even try to describe some of the stuff I see on the range where I work when it comes to these things. Let's just say that everyone who has one really wants to make it an SBR or semi-auto SMG and the accessories that are legal to own and the shooting techniques they're forced to use as a compromise are only barely workable.

The whole "arm brace" issue is also on thin ice with the BATF and I don't think anyone will be surprised if they make them illegal with a "wave of the pen." Even acknowledging the many lawsuits now in progress over the BATF's arbitrary and un-Constitutional pseudo law-making practices that MIGHT eventually resolve the arm brace drama in favor of gun owners. Right now, though, arm braces are on the BATF chopping block alongside binary and forced reset triggers.

AR pistol owners need to be prepared for the worst.

The recommendations above for a regular AR-style rifle in 5.56 are good ones. Only get an AR pistol if you REALLY (REALLY!) want one because it's exactly what you want. It's no substitute for a regular AR rifle, and folks who try to skirt the BATF rules around SBRs and AR pistols are just asking for it, IMO.
Currently there is no arm brace on that gun, it has a buffer tube that was intended to be adjustable relative to length for either shoulder stock or brace. An educated assumption is that one of those two was removed. Still to be a legal pistol and not something that is NFA will depend on the overall length of the gun and also configuration. Also if that lower was ever sold as being a rifle on the 4473, gun can not be configured as a pistol regardless under the NFA and '68 GCA.
$600 is too much and in any case I would want to test fire prior to purchase. For two hundred bucks I might be interested just for the parts.
The biggie is the new ruling has not come down yet and is due sometime this month. As the preliminary ruling was: A barrel extension that is welded to the gun or attached in a permanent manner to make that 10.5 inch barrel to 16 plus inches makes the gun into a legal rifle. All is in confusion right now until the new ruling either drops or is withdrawn. From a legal point of view it violates not only the 2nd A but also the ADA (The ADA is a civil rights law that prohibits discrimination against individuals with disabilities in all areas of public life). The lawyers will be tearing the ATF and Dept of Justice a new one over this.
I would pass right now. And anyway the price is too high as things are now. AR part prices are dropping anyway. I will not buying much including ammo until after the holidays.


Air gun Trigger Bicycle handlebar Gun barrel Wood
 

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Currently there is no arm brace on that gun, it has a buffer tube that was intended to be adjustable relative to length for either shoulder stock or brace. An educated assumption is that one of those two was removed
According to my reading of the original "pistol" determination, that extension/buffer tube is a no no. Brace buffers that were adjustable, weren't compatible with standard stocks. If they were, then it was readily convertible to a SBR. I machined off that on a nickel boron tube I had so there was no confusing anything.
 

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According to my reading of the original "pistol" determination, that extension/buffer tube is a no no. Brace buffers that were adjustable, weren't compatible with standard stocks. If they were, then it was readily convertible to a SBR. I machined off that on a nickel boron tube I had so there was no confusing anything.
SB Tactical’s SBA3 and SBA4 both utilize standard mil-spec and A5 receiver extensions, so your interpretation seems to be in conflict with one of the largest manufacturers of braces.
 

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SB Tactical’s SBA3 and SBA4 both utilize standard mil-spec and A5 receiver extensions, so your interpretation seems to be in conflict with one of the largest manufacturers of braces.
In the beginning things evolved and devolved so quickly, who knows. I think that's why there is such a stinking mess right now. They approved things they shouldn't have. That big rubber Sig Brace must weight a pound by it's self. Good for balancing a awkward pistol, bad for points on 4999 form (or whatever it is)
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
The whole ar pistol thing from what I've read is mostly still up in the air. May be or may not be legal in a week from now.

I've never owned or really wanted an AR but the price intrigued me and just as figured ... wasn't such a deal. The experience on here was much appreciated.

PSA has blem in m4 configuration I think it was for real reasonable price. I'm still learning and loving my M1A. Don't need another gun distraction right now.

Searching for extra parts, selector kit, stocks, bolts, trigger and hammer etc takes all my time and most of the free cash
 

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According to my reading of the original "pistol" determination, that extension/buffer tube is a no no. Brace buffers that were adjustable, weren't compatible with standard stocks. If they were, then it was readily convertible to a SBR. I machined off that on a nickel boron tube I had so there was no confusing anything.
First if that tube is more than 6.5 inches, it seems to be a no no, but I an not sure how many points. I have purchased specific smooth pistol buffers, most guns are using the no no carbine length buffers. Be careful with ATF about modifying a part to make it legal. 10yrs and $1/4 million fine makes me careful.

Below from the ATF worksheet 4999.

Standard AR-type Pistol Buffer Tube (6-6-1/2 Inches)
0 points
AR-type Pistol Buffer Tube with Adjustment Notches (KAK-type)
1 points
Adjustable Rifle Buffer Tube
1 points
Adjustable PDW-type guide rails
1 points
Extended AR-type Pistol Buffer Tube
2 points
Inclusion of Folding Adapter extending length of pull
2 points
Use of “Spacers” to extend length of pull
2 points
Modified shoulder stock with rear replaced by “stabilizing brace”
3 points
Attachment method creates an unusable aim-point (slant)
3 points
 

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The whole ar pistol thing from what I've read is mostly still up in the air. May be or may not be legal in a week from now.

I've never owned or really wanted an AR but the price intrigued me and just as figured ... wasn't such a deal. The experience on here was much appreciated.

PSA has blem in m4 configuration I think it was for real reasonable price. I'm still learning and loving my M1A. Don't need another gun distraction right now.

Searching for extra parts, selector kit, stocks, bolts, trigger and hammer etc takes all my time and most of the free cash
I am getting older and rifles these days are feeling heavier to lug around. I use to have disdain for made by matel 5.56. I still am not a super fan of the caliber, I have become impressed by the modular design of the AR. With inexpensive hand tools and the availability of parts so many knowledgeable people out, the AR is not bad. It will handle a large series of smaller, short cartridges. These rounds will do what I need to get done.
The 308/7.62 guns are awe and power. But the ar15 will do to defend my homestead.
 

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First if that tube is more than 6.5 inches, it seems to be a no no, but I an not sure how many points. I have purchased specific smooth pistol buffers, most guns are using the no no carbine length buffers. Be careful with ATF about modifying a part to make it legal. 10yrs and $1/4 million fine makes me careful.

Below from the ATF worksheet 4999.
I have been looking for shorter pistol tubes. I have the Strike Industries 5.5 inch, but haven't had any luck finding anything else that is smooth and reasonably priced. I question the SI tube because it has small indetentions for brace set screws.

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