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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Stag arms model 8 piston ar. Anybody got one? Likes? Dislikes? Let's hear em! I'm a firm believer in keeping the crud out of the bolt area. I like the weight and ergonomics of the ar platform,but the problems inherent to the di system have always put me off. I don't have a problem with cleaning a gun,I just don't want to spend half my life doing it. And the common argument,"you gotta run it wet" smacks of being a bit too specialized to me. Hence the choice of piston.
 

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Have you ever shoot and cleaned a traditional ar? Contrary to an arms room attendant, they don't have to be mirror clean to run. They also don't have to have lube running out like a river either. Maybe high volume auto fire will destroy the inside, but I've seen gas tubes burn holes in them selves before the bcg was damaged. This debate had been going on since the piston systems came out, won't stop. Don't be afraid of di guns man. They handle the same so, go with what floats your boat.
 

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You survived.........

From the survivalist perspective...........

Some how you live through the big crunch........... the only thing you ended up with was your weapon......... time goes on, bad weather, lack of any maintenance items, low on ammo, getting lube oil from the crankcase of abandoned cars and suddenly you have a broken piston drive........ You do some scrounging and trading to come up with an old beat up AR upper. You hook it up to your lower and it runs............. At that point you have a piston drive upper paper weight. Not really what you need to survive.

But again........ who's worried about that scenario?

Hobo
 

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I too dislike direct impingement. It is utterly unnecessary for a bolt to have carbon build up so thick you need a knife to chip it off, after a measly hundred rounds. Not to mention the build up inside the bolt carrier. Hell, I can clean the gas cylinder of an M14 with a brass brush; a brass brush won't get carbon off of an AR bolt or bolt carrier. There's a damn good reason almost no other rifle uses direct impingement.

I do not have experience with the Model 8, but I do own a Model 1. I have put a lot of rounds through it without a single malfunction. It does not have to be kept wet with lube. All I do is put LSA where metal meets metal, just like any other firearm I own.
 

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From the survivalist perspective...........

Some how you live through the big crunch........... the only thing you ended up with was your weapon......... time goes on, bad weather, lack of any maintenance items, low on ammo, getting lube oil from the crankcase of abandoned cars and suddenly you have a broken piston drive........ You do some scrounging and trading to come up with an old beat up AR upper. You hook it up to your lower and it runs............. At that point you have a piston drive upper paper weight. Not really what you need to survive.

But again........ who's worried about that scenario?

Hobo
Ahhh, AK-47. Not DI. War Proven gas piston rifle.
Yes I know Of course the AK is not an AR, but, the piston system in AR's are tough.
To each his own of course.

Dutch
 

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I have a bunch of AdamsArms piston AR's and have never had a failure in any of them or any type. The piston is self cleaning to a degree as well, what little that is left I can just wipe right off with a towel with a little CLP on it. I also froglube all my piston systems of any gun.

I'm a believer in the piston systems in general. M1A's, AK's, AR's whatever.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks guys. Snyper 762,I did the whole "clean it three different days,and here,use this lubricant to do it" thing in the Corp. Not scared of it,fed up with it. It struck me as a crap system then,and it still does. Hobo,long term survival is a non issue for me these days. Time and buying shiny new stuff I've never had are more important to me at this stage (stage 4 terminal). As a prepper of sorts in the past,believe me,each bag and vehicle would have spare parts. Besides,I'd have to REALLY like it for it to be my "grab and go" choice.
I loved my m1a for its robust simplicity but I'm too freakin scrawny now and found a good home for it. Now it's about lighter,less recoil,cheaper to feed,changing stuff on it,etc. Simplified cleaning is a good thing.
 

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Thanks guys. Snyper 762,I did the whole "clean it three different days,and here,use this lubricant to do it" thing in the Corp. Not scared of it,fed up with it. It struck me as a crap system then,and it still does. Hobo,long term survival is a non issue for me these days. Time and buying shiny new stuff I've never had are more important to me at this stage (stage 4 terminal). As a prepper of sorts in the past,believe me,each bag and vehicle would have spare parts. Besides,I'd have to REALLY like it for it to be my "grab and go" choice.
I loved my m1a for its robust simplicity but I'm too freakin scrawny now and found a good home for it. Now it's about lighter,less recoil,cheaper to feed,changing stuff on it,etc. Simplified cleaning is a good thing.
if all you're worried about is simplified cleaning, get a DI AR and put a nickel boron BCG in it. You'll save yourself a ton of money and it'll be wildly easy to clean.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I agree with a couple of the guys above,pistons rock. My AK's were very functional,reliable tools. As was the m1a,albeit a heavier, longer one with heavier ammo and longer range. I'd worry a lot less with either of those in a bad situation. Their function wouldn't be one of my nagging concerns,thereby freeing up my mind for other things. All weapons need to be taken care of and maintained to some degree,we all agree on that.
BUT... I'd rather have something a little less "sensitive to the environment" than a di ar in bad times. Not thumbing my nose at them,just my personal preference. Ok,I'm thumbing my nose a little. We all have our preferences,mine is a piston system.
 

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Old and tired, I'm sorry to hear that bud. In that case, scratch that itch because you should. You can't take anything with you anyways. At least you'll leave things behind for friends and family to"stay connected". I do still agree that the di system with a coated bcg is the way to go though. God speed on your quest.
 

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Garrard, how would you rate basic fit,finish,and overall quality for the cost on your model 1?
Mine was top notch. Most of my AR experience has been with Colts, FNH's, Bushmasters, and Rock River Arms. My Model 1 is every bit as good as my assigned M4 (Colt). For the cost, I would dare to say you can't beat it. It's basically a Colt 6920 but for a couple hundred less. My Model 1 also came with a hard case, a 30 round magazine, and a T shirt.
 
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Three letters. BCM! One word...SOLID.
I LOVE MINE!

Dutch
 
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Mine was top notch. Most of my AR experience has been with Colts, FNH's, Bushmasters, and Rock River Arms. My Model 1 is every bit as good as my assigned M4 (Colt). For the cost, I would dare to say you can't beat it. It's basically a Colt 6920 but for a couple hundred less. My Model 1 also came with a hard case, a 30 round magazine, and a T shirt.
Your Model 1 was sub-$700?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=434420041
 

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Whatever piston set up you buy just remember to stock up on wear parts. Until ( when and if) he U.S. Military approves a milspec piston design I'm not interested. You are just at the mercy of whoever is making that flavor of piston setup and hopefully they'll be in business for awhile. If its just a toy for you, no big deal. If your life depends on it its a different story.

I've been running DI M16's and AR's for almost 40 years and have had no issues. I take several day courses in all kinds of weather and all kinds of adverse conditions, expending thousands of rounds and have never had a malfunction with a DI gun that could be attributed to the operating system of the gun. I don't usually clean during these courses and just add a dash of oil to the bolt carrier.

To me an AR piston setup is just more parts to break, lose or wear out on a system that works fine already. Buy a quality AR and there should be no problems.

Myself, I'm spending that money on ammo and classes!
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Thanks Mercman. The only thing that never changes is the fact that everything changes. I fought fuel injection and electronic ignition for a long time. Actually replaced the electronic ignition on a sportster back in 89 with a points kit. Now I would keep the stock ignition and have a points kit in reserve.
I know everyone has their comfort zone,and most of us have been in the military and became very familiar and comfortable with our weapons. Last time I got out was early '90. My unit was one of the last holdouts on the .45. We were just training with the nine when I seperated. I stuck with the .45 for years after and swore by it. I,like the military, am very slow to adopt change. Finally switched to a compact 9 a couple of years ago. We all have our preferences for different reasons. And sometimes our preferences change. Or not. It's a game,and it's short. Enjoy it.
 
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