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I am retired LEO and spent a great deal of time studying the Columbine High School shooting as well as other incidents. I also conducted site surveys of dozens of schools and made recommendations to make them more secure.

You can have several motivated police officers, trained in Rapid Deployment, a few minutes away from the active shooting incident, but a lot can happen in just a few minutes before they arrive on scene.

I am in favor of authorizing a teacher who wants to carry a concealed firearm to protect students to carry inside the school. The program would have to strictly voluntary, and some firearm instruction should be provided to those who do volunteer. In my area, I can easily come up with a sufficient number of volunteer instructors, range supplies and a firearm range to use without any cost to a school district.

Additional training should be provided. A teacher does not have to be SWAT trained. A few simple techniques, that are easily remembered under stress, can be taught to the teachers. Protocol for interacting with responding law enforcement should also be covered.

Two important points for the naysayers: 1) If at any point during the training a teacher feels uncomfortable, they can walk away. 2) Maintaining physical control over the firearm at all times while on school grounds should be emphasized.

It took society over 50 years to devolve to the point that some feel that using a firearm to take innocent lives is somehow acceptable. It would take years to turn things around. Given our current climate, having a few armed teachers in every school is a good way to improve our chances to protect our children and minimize injury. At a minimum, it would be a deterrent to most potential active shooters, mentally unstable or not.
 

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I'm afraid that it takes more than an armed teacher (or a single security officer) to stop a suicidal/homicidal mass shooter armed with an AR-15 type weapon and anywhere from 30 to 210 rounds of ammo in a school building. In reality, it takes a heavily armed 6-man SWAT team with ballistic shields, proper tactical weapons that are not typically concealable, and a ton of specialized training to really neutralize a suicidal/homicidal mass shooter like what see here in the USA. I think we have 97k public schools, so multiple that by 6 and and that's 600k full-time SWAT police for just public schools, along with need to train as a team every month or two to keep the their skills up - preferably at the specific school that is funding their protection.
I disagree.
That’s B.S.
Bureaucrat Propaganda.
You are grossly exaggerating the solution.
Time and again the tables are turned on criminals who had the upper hand.
Women with handguns kill men shooting AR-15s.

 

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No SWAT team.
No Ballistic Shields.
No highly trained teams of Six.

The FBI announced Monday that citizens stopped six active shooters in 2021, according to a report on active shooting incidents.
Citizens stopped six active shooters, whom the FBI defines as “one or more individuals actively engaged in killing or attempting to kill people in a populated area,” in 2021, killing four of them, according to the report “Active Shooter Incidents In The United States In 2021.” There were 61 active shooter incidents in 2021, 12 of which met the FBI’s criteria for a “mass killing,” up from 40 the previous year.



 

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In addition to my above comments, I would not be averse to seeing this when children are on the playground, or when they are getting on/off the school bus. View attachment 482647
I was just in Israel this past March and I loved seeing all the guns everywhere. The beach by Tel Aviv had a ton of guns both official security and families. I should have gotten a picture of a family coming up off the beach, the dad was in military fatigues but obviously was enjoying the beach and he was casually walking back up to the sidewalk with his family and M16. Nice. Israel knows how to do it right.
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
I was just in Israel this past March and I loved seeing all the guns everywhere. The beach by Tel Aviv had a ton of guns both official security and families. I should have gotten a picture of a family coming up off the beach, the dad was in military fatigues but obviously was enjoying the beach and he was casually walking back up to the sidewalk with his family and M16. Nice. Israel knows how to do it right.
They obviously know how to do it right !
Israel wouldn't be a bad place to visit would it ? Lol
I definitely would be looking forward to go there !!!
 

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I don't mean to be dismissive, but hardening schools does not really justify. The number of kids who die in school shootings are what? A dozen a year? Over 100 kids per year die riding bicycles. 300 people die every year from electric toasters. 500-1,000 kids die every year from backyard pools. 400-4,000 kids per year die due to texting and driving (data is all over on this). We don't have a problem with kids becoming obese, insisting on body positively and shutting down 'fat shamers'; obesity kills 300,000 every year.

My point is that while it makes huge headlines when a school gets shot up, the actual risk to kids is very small, and is smaller than many other risks we accept in every day life without even giving it a second thought. School shootings get huge press, but they are a lot less deadly than other things we don't even consider. The consequence of a low risk is that the amount of resources a rational person spends trying to mitigate that risk should be appropriate.

Economists have put the value of human life at about $ 10 million. This was revisited during the Covid pandemic, as economists grappled with how much economic damage due to a shuttered economy is balanced by reducing Covid deaths through quarantine. So any time a politician says 'if we save even 1 life, it's worth it', no. It's not. You would not spend infinite resources to save 1 life, because at some point those loss of resources would cause a life to be lost somewhere else. Anyhow, to do the math exercise, human life is worth $ 10 million. Say 20 kids per year are killed in school shootings. If we could eliminate all school shootings, this country would be willing to spend $ 200 million. Someone said there were around 100,000 public schools, so what that says is our societal values would only justify hardening schools if we could do it (and be effective) for less than $ 2,000 per school. That won't buy you a single SRO if preventing mass shootings is all they were there for.

School shootings are evil, but there is nothing that can effectively be done to stop them. Allowing teachers to be armed is inexpensive and creates an appearance of a safety net, even if it is not effective. That's about the best you can hope for for $ 2,000.
 

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The more armed adults with training in schools, the better. It's certainly not the only solution, but in addition to perimeter security, additional armed safety officers (or police officers), is significantly better than the current situation.....one pistol (maybe) in the school, and police anywhere from minutes to an hour from providing assistance.

When schools are no longer gun-free, them will become a less desirable location for "shooters" to use to get their fame/revenge/whatever.
 

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I don’t want to live in a society where I have to be armed and “ON” all the time, like Israel, but until some bad guys get killed off to rebalance things a bit and parents start staying together long enough to raise their kids right, my options are limited.
 

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I don’t want to live in a society where I have to be armed and “ON” all the time, like Israel
If you're not "On" all the time, you maybe "Off" permanently. I have a major Sicko in my neighborhood who unfortunately has LEO friends and is protected. So for the last 23 year's I have been armed and "On" 24/7. Because one day he IS going to cross the line (and I don't want that to happen) but just like every one of these incidents on the news, every one from elected officials down know what he is.
 

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If you're not "On" all the time, you maybe "Off" permanently. I have a major Sicko in my neighborhood who unfortunately has LEO friends and is protected. So for the last 23 year's I have been armed and "On" 24/7. Because one day he IS going to cross the line (and I don't want that to happen) but just like every one of these incidents on the news, every one from elected officials down know what he is.
I guess we have different definitions of “On”.
 

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The two or three "references", for getting permission to purchase a firearm, could easily backfire.

Suppose a "loose cannon" applies for the permit to purchase a firearm, gives three references, two say he's OK, the third says no way.

The applicant is told, "sorry you're not allowed".

The applicant gets PO'd, but he doesn't know which one said "no way", so he goes out and kills, or tries to kill, all three and anyone else around the three.

You learn of why the applicant went after those three.

So the next time you are asked to be a reference, you just cowtow and say, "sure he's no threat to himself or others".

I suppose you could turn down the request to be a reference, then you'll really find out how much you really know about the applicant.
 
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