M14 Forum banner
1 - 20 of 113 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,112 Posts
As I understand the new law, it allows teachers to carry firearms after 24 hours of training. Reportedly, they previously needed to go through the complete law enforcement training regime in order to be armed.

I firmly believe that training is critical but there are obvious trade offs when it comes to determining the minimum training requirements. More is better but if the requirements are too extensive few teachers will even bother getting trained.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,084 Posts
I would encourage others to follow Ohio permitting armed teachers in the school, providing that the selection of such teachers is carefully screened and tested for their ability to perform such duties as required for at sometime during this duty someone is going to be required to "take out" some crazed person trying to murder students and other teachers.
From my experience with those in university becoming teachers was not one where such a teacher could be viewed as having the mind set to perform such duties, but I am confident that Ohio Government will be very careful in their selection process. In fact, I would advise more than one such teacher be given the same role dependent on the size of the school and its student body. In addition, secure the building that only one way in and out is firmly established, lock down the facility during school hours. Just my thoughts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Well most schools are getting ready to be out for summer break. Time to start training !!! Every school should be working with local law enforcement agencies. So teachers know something of a plan. Communication plans. LEO'S and teaching staff in school doing walk through drills. Teachers and LEO on the live fire range for training then back to the school and more drills to include dry fire drills. The whole crawl, walk, run phases of training.
I'm totally ok with teachers being armed in school. But I think they need full tilt training. With refreser training every year and several drills.
So some people will say that is to much on a teacher. Well if it stops one shooting without anyone hurt (other than the shooter) it would be worth it.
Or allow more armed security in all schools and all schools a secured facility. Metal detectors, x-ray machines, fences, cameras. Make like going to school like getting on a airplane. Take the armed person out of my local DMV's and put them in schools.

It totally baffles me adults want and accept armed security and protection. But don't want it for their kids.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
2,250 Posts
restrictive policies, rules, laws et al that attempt to prohibit a person's ability to defend themselves are an infringement and dehumanizing. no one should need a permission slip from the tooth-fairy nor any other imaginary entity to do so. while I am an Instructor and advocate for instruction, to require it before "allowing" another human to defend themselves is akin to ownership of that person and equally restrictive. personal liability is still at play regardless of training.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,112 Posts
Arming teachers is a complex issue. Some tend to trivialize what is required. Firstly, there needs to be a screening process. Not everyone is suited for the responsibility associated with using deadly force. Many individuals do not possess the right mindset. There also needs to be good training requirements. Shooting an armed assailant in a school environment is not as simple as shooting a target on the square range. Both good judgment and good marksmanship skills are required. If an innocent student is killed or injured by an armed teacher, there will be hell to pay. Being aware of what is around your target and beyond takes on a new meaning in a school environment.

While I favor allowing teachers to be armed but I also believe it is a complex issue. I do not believe armed teachers are a substitute for a school security officer. They are only an additional layer of defense.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,708 Posts
Arming teachers is a complex issue. Some tend to trivialize what is required. Firstly, there needs to be a screening process. Not everyone is suited for the responsibility associated with using deadly force. Many individuals do not possess the right mindset. There also needs to be good training requirements. Shooting an armed assailant in a school environment is not as simple as shooting a target on the square range. Both good judgment and good marksmanship skills are required. If an innocent student is killed or injured by an armed teacher, there will be hell to pay. Being aware of what is around your target and beyond takes on a new meaning in a school environment.

While I favor allowing teachers to be armed but I also believe it is a complex issue. I do not believe armed teachers are a substitute for a school security officer. They are only an additional layer of defense.
I generally agree, but what we see with mass shootings and what pro gun people have known for a while is that when you outsource safety to hired help, you cannot expect the same level of investment as when you leave it to those who are defending themselves.

While TX police may try to ‘strategize’ for an hour, a parent of a kid under attack or a teacher under fire would recognize that time is of the essence when your life is on the line.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,635 Posts
While I favor allowing teachers to be armed but I also believe it is a complex issue. I do not believe armed teachers are a substitute for a school security officer. They are only an additional layer of defense.
I'm afraid that it takes more than an armed teacher (or a single security officer) to stop a suicidal/homicidal mass shooter armed with an AR-15 type weapon and anywhere from 30 to 210 rounds of ammo in a school building. In reality, it takes a heavily armed 6-man SWAT team with ballistic shields, proper tactical weapons that are not typically concealable, and a ton of specialized training to really neutralize a suicidal/homicidal mass shooter like what see here in the USA. I think we have 97k public schools, so multiple that by 6 and and that's 600k full-time SWAT police for just public schools, along with need to train as a team every month or two to keep the their skills up - preferably at the specific school that is funding their protection.

Hence, even if we raised local taxes to pay for such a force, I don't think we can effectively harden our schools with such a massive police/SWAT force. Not sure how kids and parents would feel seeing 6 people decked out in full tactical gear at the entry points. It's more effective (and cheaper) to do a couple of character/reference checks for young males buying their first firearm that trying to train teachers and create a police state for public schools...Once the disturbed person has the firearms, ammo, and homicidal/suicidal intent, its basically too late. My 2cts.
Camouflage Squad Military camouflage Ballistic vest Cargo pants
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,627 Posts
They need to go through a live fire training exercise on top of REAL training and background check. Carrying a firearm of any kind in a school isn't a easy task. Mentally most aren't prepared. More than one concealed hand gun has been handed or thrown at bad guys
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
21,077 Posts
I am afraid that while a trained SWAT team is strategizing, a qualified teacher, already on the scene, should be able to neutralize some meathead with a gun. One resident immediately beats the hell out of 6 an hour late to the show.
No amount of LEO training can trump an individual with an adrenaline rush defending his or her students. People need to be able to take care of business. Police are not there to " protect" anyone if they are outside hiding behind an armored vehicle. Truth is, it is an individual's responsibility to protect them and theirs in most situations.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,112 Posts
I generally agree, but what we see with mass shootings and what pro gun people have known for a while is that when you outsource safety to hired help, you cannot expect the same level of investment as when you leave it to those who are defending themselves.

While TX police may try to ‘strategize’ for an hour, a parent of a kid under attack or a teacher under fire would recognize that time is of the essence when your life is on the line.
While anyone in direct danger is highly motivated, they aren't always effective. To be an effective gunfighter requires the correct mindset and good proficiency. A good professional should have the correct mindset to go into harms way so they should possess more than enough motivation to fight.

As for the debacle in TX, the failings were far more complicated than a lack of motivation. Firstly, there was a total lack of command and control. The individual who supposedly was the on-scene commander apparently didn't see himself as being in charge. However, it appears he made decisions which effected the law enforcement response. That is mind boggling and certainly leads to ineffectiveness. There was also a lack of essential support equipment. The on-scene commander didn't have a set of keys and didn't have a radio. Makes one wonder what kind of training they supposedly had. The need for keys should have been obvious during practice runs. Someone in a command position deciding not to carry a radio because the antenna banged into things while he was moving is beyond my ability to comprehend. I guess he never heard about shoot, move and COMMUNICATE.

I would use the TX debacle as a learning experience. I would not use it as an indictment of all law enforcement personnel. The CBP team performed well once they were given the opportunity to perform the assault. The on-scene commander was a disgrace and I would go so far as to suggest that he was grossly negligent.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
61 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I'm afraid that it takes more than an armed teacher to stop a suicidal/homicidal mass shooter armed with an AR-15 type weapon and anywhere from 30 to 210 rounds of ammo in a school building. In reality, it takes a heavily armed 6-man SWAT team with ballistic shields, proper tactical weapons that are not typically concealable, and a ton of specialized training to really neutralize a suicidal/homicidal mass shooter like what see here in the USA. I think we have 97k public schools, so multiple that by 6 and and that's 600k full-time SWAT police for just public schools, along with need to train as a team every month or two to keep the their skills up - preferably at the specific school that is funding their protection.

Hence, even if we raised local taxes to pay for such a force, I don't think we can effectively harden our schools with such a massive police/SWAT force. Not sure how kids and parents would feel seeing 6 people decked out in full tactical gear at the entry points. It's more effective (and cheaper) to do a couple of character/reference checks for young males buying their first firearm that trying to train teachers and create a police state for public schools...Once they have the firearms, ammo, and homicidal/suicidal intent, its basically too late. My 2cts.
View attachment 482628
You just made a fantastic point sir
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
116 Posts
I'm afraid that it takes more than an armed teacher to stop a suicidal/homicidal mass shooter armed with an AR-15 type weapon and anywhere from 30 to 210 rounds of ammo in a school building. In reality, it takes a heavily armed 6-man SWAT team with ballistic shields, proper tactical weapons that are not typically concealable, and a ton of specialized training to really neutralize a suicidal/homicidal mass shooter like what see here in the USA. I think we have 97k public schools, so multiple that by 6 and and that's 600k full-time SWAT police for just public schools, along with need to train as a team every month or two to keep the their skills up - preferably at the specific school that is funding their protection.

Hence, even if we raised local taxes to pay for such a force, I don't think we can effectively harden our schools with such a massive police/SWAT force. Not sure how kids and parents would feel seeing 6 people decked out in full tactical gear at the entry points. It's more effective (and cheaper) to do a couple of character/reference checks for young males buying their first firearm that trying to train teachers and create a police state for public schools...Once they have the firearms, ammo, and homicidal/suicidal intent, its basically too late. My 2cts.
View attachment 482628
Bull crap! All it takes to neutralize a threat is the tools and the mindset. If you don’t have your head wrapped fully around turning a human being into a by product it doesn’t matter how many of you there are.
 
1 - 20 of 113 Posts
Top