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Hornady lists a maximum charge of 43.2 grains of IMR4064 in their 308 service rifle section for a 150 grain bullet at 2700 fps velocity. And that is with commercial cases and regular primers.

Using the search function, I've found where it has been posted several times here in the past of NRA data giving a charge range of 42-44 grains of IMR4064 using GI Lake City cases.

The NRA data would seem to be high to me compared to Hornady since Hornady max is 43.2 with a commercial case. I've always read that you have to drop a grain of powder when using mil-spec cases, so that would drop the Hornady value down to 42.2 grains of IMR4064. Supposedly it would drop even a little more if using a primer such as CCI#34.

So anyway, I'm a little confused and would appreciate any insight others have to offer. I'm trying to work up the following load and don't want to overdo it:

150 grain bullet
CCI#34 primer
IMR4064 powder
LC cases
2700 fps velocity

So what would/should be the max charge? Is 43.0, 43.5, 44.0 grade of IMR 4064 too much?
 

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Welcome aboard.

I understand the confusion. I am a by the book guy and understand that many others are not. I stay away from maximum loads in my rifle. You are wise to know that you should reduce powder loads in Military 7.62X51 cases, they tend to be thicker with less interior volume. The data I have seen recommends reducing the maximum charge either by 1.5 grains or 10% and working up from there.

High velocity does not necessarily mean better accuracy. I am currently working on a 40 grain load of IMR 4064 which runs around 2400 fps. with a 150 grain bullet.

IMHO, If Hornady is saying 43.2 grains of IMR 4064 is a maximum charge, that is good enough for me.

NOTE: I should have added that I use the same Service Data for my .308 Win. M1 Garand and M1A's. I load differently for my bolt guns.
 

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Welcome to the forum from CT.

I like to find a node around 2500 for my loadings.

Semper Fi
Art
 

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The idea about having to reduce loads with GI cases is more applicable to 30-06 than to 308Win. Most GI and commercial cases weigh about the same and have similar capacity. Some Winchester has a reputation for being lighter weight and having more capacity.

Also, you'll find significant differences among the various 'reloading guides' about how much powder to use.

A good way to compare between loads (if you don't have a chrono ) is to use a good quality commercial (or GI M80) 150 grain FMJ cartridge as your baseline. Just pay attention to how far and fast it eject cases, and the elev setting for at least 100 yards.

And with 4064, if you're getting near a 'max load' you should be weighing each charge.

4064 doesn't meter very consistently, so there can be a 0.5 grain +/- difference sometimes. If the meter handle is too easy or too crunchy, I dump the charge back in the hopper and redo.

With a moderate load of 4064 and shooting less than 300 yards, just doing metered charges works ok (along with the too easy/crunchy procedure).

Jay
 

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Hornady service rifle section isn't that great.

43grains of 4064 with lake city or federal brass and a 150gr hornady at 2.750" is about right. You can use the same charge with 168s and 175s at 2.805" but 42grains might be a bit easier on the brass.

I like Varget and H4895 more than 4064, they are a smaller grain so metering is easier.
 

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make sure you have a good case gauge and chronograph
 
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I like all of the above posts and agree with them but when you are using Hornady load data it looks very lame to me. you did read where they were getting moa groups with their data? I have not got close to that using it, but what I did do was use it as a starting point and work up. When trying a new load, especially one that is worked up in grains, the first thing I do is look at the primer on the fired shell case They are supposed to flatten some but if I see cratering and severe flattening I don't shoot those any more. Chronograph and watching for pressure signs is the best way we have to work loads up and remembering to keep bullet weights to arsenal velocities within specs for port pressure. My best reference so far has been here and reading what others have done because 99% have more time behind the trigger on the m14-m1a than I do. I try to post what I have done and I have 3 of that manufactures bullets to load on my next trip weighing from 168-178 including ELD's
 

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Start on the low side of the charge spec's & work your way up with in the Manuals charge range , while checking for high pressure signs in the Brass & see what charge weight & brass you are using produce the results you want , like group size . You can use the Ladder type method or something to you choosing to get to want works best in your rifle , all barrels & Chambers are not the same .

Commercial Brass with is higher case capacity will be different then , say LC brass , though some commercial brass ,as said ,can have the lower case volume as LC brass , producing higher pressures then a higher volume case capacity . You can weigh them to make sure where they fall in volume wise .
 

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The Hornady book was written by lawyers.

They deem "Service Rifle" to include M1 Garands of questionable condition that have been rebarreled or otherwise modified to shoot .308 Winchester.

M80 ball specs out to 2780 fps with a 147-150 grains bullet.

4064 is not your best choice for a 150 grain bullet, even with a long barrel.

Pull any factory M80 ball ammunition and you will find at least 44 grains of powder, regardless of which type is used.
 

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I agree that when Hornady came out with their 308 semi-auto section that it is way less than the "old standards."
 

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Funny this thread came up. I just loaded up some Hornady 150gr FMJBT's tonight with Varget (44-45gr loads) and IMR 4064 (43-44gr loads). I used Nato brass and CCI 200 primers. I had to seat them to an oal of 2.700" in order to get a crimp on the cannelure. I plan on shooting these in the next few days. Will post results.
 

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Funny this thread came up. I just loaded up some Hornady 150gr FMJBT's tonight with Varget (44-45gr loads) and IMR 4064 (43-44gr loads). I used Nato brass and CCI 200 primers. I had to seat them to an oal of 2.700" in order to get a crimp on the cannelure. I plan on shooting these in the next few days. Will post results.
Skip the crimp and seat to 2.80 and call it a day.
The only rifle I have found their cannelure in the right location is the 30-40 Krag.
 

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The cannelure is present on less expensive bullets, such as FMJ, simply to keep the jacket and core attached to each other. Sometimes it is in a convenient place to crimp, other times not. Unless you are using a machine gun, ignore it.
 

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Skip the crimp and seat to 2.80 and call it a day.
The only rifle I have found their cannelure in the right location is the 30-40 Krag.

I loaded up 10 rounds of Hornady 155gr hpbt w/cannelure today I got from Grafs.

Seated them by eyeball to the cannelure but did not crimp and they measured 2.80

Seated Berger Full Bore Target 155.5gr bullets with the same die setting and they measured 2.835 +-
 

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I loaded up 10 rounds of Hornady 155gr hpbt w/cannelure today I got from Grafs.

Seated them by eyeball to the cannelure but did not crimp and they measured 2.80

Seated Berger Full Bore Target 155.5gr bullets with the same die setting and they measured 2.835 +-
Most likely different olgive , all depends Bullet & your Die's Seating stem . There is a good video on this forum where the shooter tested different Seating Die brands for the 6.5 Creedmoor & how different bullet sat in the seating stem. Here is a good article about Bullets , kinda basic , but a good one , non the less .

http://www.mssblog.com/2018/03/23/reloaders-corner-bullets-101/
 

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So I did some shooting today with this load/150gr bullet combo:

2.005" case length (Nato brass)
CCI 200 primers
44.5gr Varget
Hornady 150gr FMJ BT
2.700" oal

It shoots remarkably well and the poi was mimicking my milsurp ammo.

I shot a few other loads using IMR 4064. Couldn't get the groups to match the Varget loads but they weren't bad. 44gr of IMR 4064 was decent with the 150gr pill.
 

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Most likely different olgive , all depends Bullet & your Die's Seating stem . There is a good video on this forum where the shooter tested different Seating Die brands for the 6.5 Creedmoor & how different bullet sat in the seating stem. Here is a good article about Bullets , kinda basic , but a good one , non the less .

http://www.mssblog.com/2018/03/23/reloaders-corner-bullets-101/
The do seat longer. They seem thinner to the eye or more streamline than usual.
 
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