My Socom 16

10473 Views 54 Replies 10 Participants Last post by GeneCo, Mar 24, 2012

GeneCo

Discussion Starter · Feb 26, 2012 (Edited)

6

Recently got a Socom 16 and wanted to do a Scout configuration ala Col Cooper( I've wanted to for a LONG time) and make it as reliable( and accurate) as possible.

We have hogs and gators and bear( oh my!), so this will fit that bill.

I put a long eye relief 4X32 NCstar scope on it, got some CMI SS mags( Florida humidity) and a Blackhawk cheek pad. Mag carriers are kydex, from SKD. The sling is from T.I.S. http://www.tacticalintervention.com/

Now, afa reliability, I did a little trigger work- I replaced the stock hammer and extractor with forged ones. I polished up the front hooks of the hammer and the matching surface of the secondary sear.

What that does is give me a nice, smooth trigger pull. I didnt mess with the back hooks and primary sear, as I want a solid hook up there( catches the hammer when, if you hold the trigger back after a shot). I put a Chrome alloy spring in, so the perceived pull is lighter, but mainly it's a smoother and cleaner break.

I also polished up the front face( where the bolt hits it in recoil) and the side( that rubs against the housing and safety) and it's mating surface.

I greased it all up and it's nice and smooth.

I also polished up the runner where the op rod rides and the face of the mag catch/release, so the mag goes in /out good.
=================================================

Then, inspired by Lazerus, I decide to add a pistol grip to it. I cut the back off and matched a Choate pistol grip from a Winchester Mod 1200 to it

So this is the result

I shimmed the GC, but there's still 1/8" gap when the gas plug hits the piston(when screwing it in), so now I need another piston, or find someone with a lathe to take it down.

Also, now am looking for lighter loads for CBQ work.

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Mocos

· #10 · Feb 27, 2012

GeneCo said:
Recently got a Socom 16 and wanted to do a Scout configuration ala Col Cooper( I've wanted to for a LONG time) and make it as reliable( and accurate) as possible.

We have hogs and gators and bear( oh my!), so this will fit that bill.

I put a long eye relief 4X32 NCstar scope on it, got some CMI SS mags( Florida humidity) and a Blackhawk cheek pad. Mag carriers are kydex, from SKD. The sling is from T.I.S. http://www.tacticalintervention.com/

Now, afa reliability, I did a little trigger work- I replaced the stock hammer and extractor with forged ones. I polished up the front hooks of the hammer and the matching surface of the secondary sear.

What that does is give me a nice, smooth trigger pull. I didnt mess with the back hooks and primary sear, as I want a solid hook up there( catches the hammer when, if you hold the trigger back after a shot). I put a Chrome alloy spring in, so the perceived pull is lighter, but mainly it's a smoother and cleaner break.

I also polished up the front face( where the bolt hits it in recoil) and the side( that rubs against the housing and safety) and it's mating surface.

I greased it all up and it's nice and smooth.

I also polished up the runner where the op rod rides and the face of the mag catch/release, so the mag goes in /out good.
=================================================

Then, inspired by Lazerus, I decide to add a pistol grip to it. I cut the back off and matched a Choate pistol grip from a Winchester Mod 1200 to it

So this is the result

I shimmed the GC, but there's still 1/8" gap when the gas plug hits the piston(when screwing it in), so now I need another piston, or find someone with a lathe to take it down.

Also, now am looking for lighter loads for CBQ work.

I don't think there should be a gap that large.....do a search on it or somebody should chime in with info and fix......all the pistons are the same size...might have to do with your shim job....

Reactions: 1

Mocos

· #20 · Mar 7, 2012

GeneCo said:
Well, I put a AFG on her and drilled out the FH to try and tame muzzle flip.

Now, I wanted the AFG so far off the stock to make sure I don't grab the op rod, so that was by design and on purpose.

Btw, it( AFG) improves the control greatly, the FH works ok( not as much I'd hoped). I have some 147gr S&B coming in tomorrow, so we'll see how that works.

when you say "muzzle flip" I assume you mean muzzle rise....you should be drilling out the top ports and I would do it with incremental sized drills..and don't do all the holes at one time....I would suggest in pairs. I posted pictures of it here...search "hopco" or "socom" and it will pop up.

Mocos

· #24 · Mar 7, 2012

GeneCo said:
Yeah,. but didn't you say you messed up and if you had it to do over, you'd just do the sides?

I modified it to become a brake and initially drilled them all out to allow for the greater volume of trapped gas to exit through the ports. My first outting the muzzle would depress (down) 3-5 inches.....then I just enlarged just the second and third rows ...still depressed 2-3 inches.....then did just the third row but angled slightly downward...almost there.....then tapped all the top holes and will plug in pairs with set screws..tryout this weekend...

so...in your case since you want to keep the muzzle down, I would do only the top holes...the second and third rows are angled upward but doing the top would keep the muzzle down drilling out fewer holes. I don't know how much of a rise you want to be neutralized. Mine is different because I hogged out the inside of the compensator to make it a brake and the gas pressure is much greater.

Mocos

· #26 · Mar 8, 2012

GeneCo said:
I don't know, I don't want to lose my sight picture. If you push on somethnig at the 45deg, it's the same as pushing from the very top.

that's a reasonable assumption.....the top ports angle are still angled away from vertical but more toward vertical than the second and third rows..... In my experiment I got too much down force and after drilling out the 2n & 3rd rows, it dips 1-2 inches and it is interesting in that I maintain sight picture all the time because of the muzzle dip. A couple of things comes to mind is that a rising muzzle sometimes creates a bad shooting habit of lifting your head upon firing and peeking to see your impact....the other is that the muzzle rise is actually caused by the the shooter's upward pressure on the forearm, particularly if the rifle is muzzle heavy. Another thing is the your AFG could contribute to muzzle rise depending on how you grip and apply pressure to it....the angle is conducive to a upward motion...if it were a vertical grip, I think it would be neutral....anyway just some thoughts

Reactions: 2

Mocos

· #31 · Mar 8, 2012

GeneCo said:
Also, I's refering to losing sight pic from flash blindness, fire coming out the top.

at night.. you won't eliminate muzzle flash on a socom compensator period....it will be a ball of fire maybe 20-30 inches in diameter... if you want to eliminate the flash, you have to use something like the SEI vortex combo.. Daytime, you won't see it for the most part, shoulldn't be an issue..good luck..

Reactions: 1

Mocos

· #36 · Mar 9, 2012

GeneCo said:
But, but, but, I have this here SOCOM 16.........sheeshola, I'd have to get all new mags and carriers and optics and slings.......I have an M4........Naw, I'll keep this.

Btw, the hogs and bear ain't nearly as big as way up there, but down here, it's more like brair rabbit and the tar pit baby( meaning in this brush, if one gets you cornered, you got nowhere to run, it's either you or it, your gun better put it down).

A Socom 16 in the hand is worth 2 Ar10 in the bush.MCORPS1

socoms and AR10's are like comparing apples and popcorn.....

Reactions: 1

Mocos

· #37 · Mar 9, 2012

GeneCo said:
Well, in a run and gun, walking at a fast pace, swinging the rifle back and forth, engaging targets on either side of you, you'd be missing alot, holding the mag.

Folks hold out to the end as far as they can, because it puts them on target more consistantly.

Offhand, slow fire, static target, sure, hold the mag, under the mag, elbow on the hip, just like in bootcamp.

I don't have a favorite/specific grip....I use the whole length of the forearm..some closer some longer..but because of the lightweight I built, I can hold forwardmost longer(time)...I think magholds are because it is easier to support the total weight of the rig...nothing more...how long can you hold steady m14 or ar15/ar10.....say 10 inches forward of the magwell..I've been lifting weights to improve my hold and I find that with my support arm fully extended, it's pretty comfortable....it's easy to pull in straight...with a vertical or angle grip, they put strain on my elbow joint. As far as elbow on hip and under the mag....not very stable unless you are in tall grass and nothing else to use as a support..

Reactions: 2

Mocos

· #39 · Mar 12, 2012

GeneCo said:
Btw, before I attached the AFG, I screwed and glued the rail( that the AFG secures to) on with JB weld.......I also went ahead and painted the inside of the forend with JB weld as well, to stiffen it up.

curious..some questions...I have on order carbon fiber tape and haven't decided which epoxy/resin to use...

>> which stock did you use?
>> did you notice any perceptable stiffness in the forearm with just the jb?
>> did you weigh the stock before and after to see how much weight was
added?
>> how thick of a layer of jb do you think you created?
>> have you tested yet for accuracy improvement? before...after?

Mocos

· #41 · Mar 12, 2012

Dredsen said:
Im gonna have to go with you on not wanting to jump on board with all the people saying to hold your gun all the way forward (even on the AR15)

I have tried it and it does provide Foregrip control without the fore grip. However i don't like the amount of stress it puts on your arm. I'ts a race gun technique NOT a combat technique.

To each their own YMMV

I wouldn't call it a race gun technique....I think it is an evolvement from competition shooting ...and those guys don't do it just to feel good. It's a winning technique and it works for them and as I said before, I do weight training so I can do it and it adds to my option list. See..you say it puts stress on you whole arm while it is comfortable for me. I have my support arm out straight and to pull in, I twist to bring my left shoulder back at the same time pushing forward with my right hand and shoulder on the pistol grip... With a mag hold or AFG or vertical grip, when I pull back, I put stress on my elbow( tennis elbow)...

Reactions: 1

Mocos

· #45 · Mar 12, 2012

GeneCo said:
Not to mention, helping controlling the recoil.

I see holding the AR that way( at the mag), as it hardly recoils, but to hold a SG or high powered M14 that way is useless in controlling recoil.

the grips whether AFG vertical or forward hold don't reduce recoil...they are techniques or accessories that are supposed to speed up the handling characteristics of a given weapon....and are typically for short barreled rifles utilized in close quarter tactics......I don't see AFG's or vertical grips on full sized m1's or m1a's. I sure some one has tried it. so...recoiling recoil is holding in snug in the shoulder pocked,leaning into it....and grin if it stings.

Mocos

· #46 · Mar 12, 2012

GeneCo said:
Not to mention, helping controlling the recoil.

I see holding the AR that way( at the mag), as it hardly recoils, but to hold a SG or high powered M14 that way is useless in controlling recoil.

the grips whether AFG vertical or forward hold don't reduce recoil...they are techniques or accessories that are supposed to speed up the handling characteristics of a given weapon....and are typically for short barreled rifles utilized in close quarter tactics......I don't see AFG's or vertical grips on full sized m1's or m1a's. I sure some one has tried it. so...recoiling recoil is holding in snug in the shoulder pocket, leaning into it....and grin if it stings.

Reactions: 1

Mocos

· #48 · Mar 12, 2012

GeneCo said:
Yes, I meant muzzle flip......but if you held the M1A with just your trigger hand and fired, you'll feel one type of recoil and muzzle flip.....then hold two handed, at the mag and you'll feel another, different, recoil and muzzle flip....then hold two handed, out by the sling swivel, still another, different recoil and muzzle flip. The name of the game is to get it on target and keep it there, shot after shot.

We have a COF that we call the Grinder( or the Swinger), that tests this very thing. We have 4x8', free standing partitions( most ranges do) to simulate walls. We run them parallel to each other( about 5-6' apart), from the starting point( of the firing line), down range. We'll put 2, then a space( on either side) and then 2 more, then a space, then 2 more, so that you end up with a "hallway". Now, at the spaces and 45deg off that, we put 2 targets, sides by side, about 15 yds away, so that when you start at the starting point and walk down that "hallway", you come to those openings and see 2 targets at the 45, on either side and 4 side by side, down at the end.

So the COF is , at the buzzer, quicky walk( or run) down to the first opening, swing up and put one in each target on one side( doesn't matter which side), swing over and put one each in the other 2 and then swing back and put one in each of the first two and then swing back and put 2 more in the second two, so that all 4 targets get 2 shots each. Then quicky on down and do that again at the next opening......Then, down at the end is 4 targets, side by side, you put one in each, Done.. 12 targets, 20 rnds, if you use 10 rnd/mag, you can add a mag change.

Score is for time and accuracy.

This will tell you where to put your hands.

I guarantee that right after the first string( maybe sooner), most hands will spread out.

I think you have better control with the hands spread apart...and the faster you need to muscle the muzzle, the farther you support hand will be....you can use your forward sling mount as a grip ...put the sling between your middle and ring finger..palm up and hold the forearm as you would normally with your thumb pointing forward at the intended target. can use your thumb to aid in pointing at target....ala magpul style.. If you want to burn more ammo.....same COF......all failure drills...mandatory mag change ...cheers

Reactions: 1

Mocos

· #50 · Mar 13, 2012

GeneCo said:
Agreed...Well, that's what the AFG is for....LOL

what I was getting at was that where you have your AFG is where I generally hold but if I wanted to extend my hold farther out, I would use the mounted sling itself...sorta like a two finger AFG.

Reactions: 1

Mocos

· #53 · Mar 13, 2012

competition improves the breed....whether it be for a trophy or your scalp.....I would venture to say that every technique you use today is a result of adopting a technique developed from competition....and the technique will die if the race gun guys don't win with it....some have a long life...like ..go prone if you can....

pick your philosophy......"Never to old to learn" or "Can't teach an old dog new tricks"

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