[GeneCo]

Recently got a Socom 16 and wanted to do a Scout configuration ala Col Cooper( I've wanted to for a LONG time) and make it as reliable( and accurate) as possible.

We have hogs and gators and bear( oh my!), so this will fit that bill.

I put a long eye relief 4X32 NCstar scope on it, got some CMI SS mags( Florida humidity) and a Blackhawk cheek pad. Mag carriers are kydex, from SKD. The sling is from T.I.S. http://www.tacticalintervention.com/

Now, afa reliability, I did a little trigger work- I replaced the stock hammer and extractor with forged ones. I polished up the front hooks of the hammer and the matching surface of the secondary sear.

What that does is give me a nice, smooth trigger pull. I didnt mess with the back hooks and primary sear, as I want a solid hook up there( catches the hammer when, if you hold the trigger back after a shot). I put a Chrome alloy spring in, so the perceived pull is lighter, but mainly it's a smoother and cleaner break.


I also polished up the front face( where the bolt hits it in recoil) and the side( that rubs against the housing and safety) and it's mating surface.

I greased it all up and it's nice and smooth.


I also polished up the runner where the op rod rides and the face of the mag catch/release, so the mag goes in /out good.
=================================================

Then, inspired by Lazerus, I decide to add a pistol grip to it. I cut the back off and matched a Choate pistol grip from a Winchester Mod 1200 to it

So this is the result

I shimmed the GC, but there's still 1/8" gap when the gas plug hits the piston(when screwing it in), so now I need another piston, or find someone with a lathe to take it down.

Also, now am looking for lighter loads for CBQ work.

 

[GeneCo]

That's a good looking rifle. I like the custom stock.

Thanks , I wanted something as light and handy as I could get, without breaking the bank. I saw what Lazerus had done to his rifles and talked with him awhile and decided to try it.


This is what it came off of

I just put the wood stock back on the Winchester( since the Remmy is my primary SG).




I'm pleased with the results, it's handy, light and responsive( and puts the middle of my finger tip pad on the trigger) and I can spend my money on forged parts.

 

[GeneCo]

there you go. never seen ss magazines. you did the trigger yourself? nice work! get some DAG battle paks and have fun

Sorry, DAG? What and where? I'm looking for a low recoil, low flash, light load, for fast follow up shots.

 

[GeneCo]

German surplus NATO 7.62x51.

http://m14forum.com/ammunition/108956-pictures-corrosion-inside-men94-cases.html

Yeah, I have a box of that( no corrosion), I'm looking for something lighter than that.

And by the way, I had a NC star scope on my Socom 16 and after 100 or so rounds, it was all done. FYI. Get what ya pay for.

Yep, it's what I had,,,,, I'll shoot it out and get something else.

 

[GeneCo]

I don't think there should be a gap that large.....do a search on it or somebody should chime in with info and fix......all the pistons are the same size...might have to do with your shim job....

I have read Art's thread on this and he says .010, but still leaves questions that he's not answered. One is, is that with a round in the chamber or no? Another, Is that with the cylinder shimmed or not?

One I have is, even now with my gap, when I cycle the action and the bolt cams down into battery, the op rod still travels forward good 1/4" and when I pull the op rod back, to take the bolt out of battery, it travels back 1/4" before it cams the bolt out of battery. My question is, how does this play factor into this?

When I think about firing a round, the initial blast takes the bolt out of battery, so that it's actually pulling the op rod, until the gas gets into the cylinder and pushes the piston, which at best, gives it a sling( supposedly at the same pressure). Now, the op spring stops the whole action and then begins the forward motion, so that the op rod is pulling the bolt, stripping a new round, shoving it into the chamber and then going into battery. In my mind, when the op rod cams that bolt into battery, it has already made contact with the piston and should bottom out, just short of pulling on the bolt, it 'slings' the bolt into battery and stops just short.

 

[GeneCo]

Odd as it sounds, you need more shim until getting that gas plug to touch the piston and have a tad less than 1 full turn left before torqing out. That would be optimal BUT you must watch out for closing off the gas port... Only shim out until you cannot get a an allen or drill bit to pass thru the exhaust port to the rifle bore.

Somewhere on the site i read not to close off the gas port less than 60 percent. Hope that helps!

So you're saying to shim out the gas cylinder until I get a tad less than a full turn( of the gas plug) before torqing? Art says to shim out the cylinder until the gas lock tightens up at 5:00-5:30 and then to lathe piston down. Hmmm.

 

[GeneCo]

ON a lighter note, I have a Magpul ARG coming, I'll get it on and get a pic of it.

 

[GeneCo]

I've never seen a recommendation to lathe a piston down to fit. Not saying you shouldn't but i have heard if you go too far you will hit soft metal. And yes... you do want a 5-5:30 start on the gas plug tightening. You will get a chance to do that on every thread. Also, Art is the very one that suggested what I was talking about earlier... search "dwell time". If anyone would know there stuff around here, it'd be Art and Gus. I've learned a lot of tweaks from them both.

Yeah, I've read them , too, that's why I say what I do.......Btw, not 5-5:30 on the plug, but on the gas cylinder lock( for shimming the gas cylinder). The plug is something else.


http://m14forum.com/art-luppino/50859-how-find-your-dwell-time.html

In general, if the gap is more than .010", this is where I set my rifles, you have more than is necessary and are working towards a short Dwell, the bigger the gap the shorter the Dwell. This distance can be safely modified by cutting off material on the tang of the piston using a lathe. There is Approx 1/10 th. of an inch of solid material at the end of the tang.

 

[GeneCo]

I don't think there should be a gap that large.....do a search on it or somebody should chime in with info and fix......all the pistons are the same size...might have to do with your shim job....

I don't understand, seems like if I shim the cylinder( putting it farther away from the op rod), it will make the gap in the plug smaller( lengthening the dwell).

 

[GeneCo]

Well, I put a AFG on her and drilled out the FH to try and tame muzzle flip.

Now, I wanted the AFG so far off the stock to make sure I don't grab the op rod, so that was by design and on purpose.

Btw, it( AFG) improves the control greatly, the FH works ok( not as much I'd hoped). I have some 147gr S&B coming in tomorrow, so we'll see how that works.

 

[GeneCo]

when you say "muzzle flip" I assume you mean muzzle rise....you should be drilling out the top ports and I would do it with incremental sized drills..and don't do all the holes at one time....I would suggest in pairs. I posted pictures of it here...search "hopco" or "socom" and it will pop up.

Yeah,. but didn't you say you messed up and if you had it to do over, you'd just do the sides?

 

[GeneCo]

How is that AFG working out for you??... I found AFG was located too far forward to balance properly for me on a shorty 14....It actually slowed me down on my CQB practices.....I still use a "Magazine hold" for ALL my rifles, even my shorty AR 15. I've been told this hold is obsolete and not as ergonomically efficient as some of the newer CQB optimised fore arm holds. I guess I'm a bit of a dinosaur ... I still shoot genuine Weaver stance with my pistol, and most of the other younger [ and faster shooters ] seem to have gone to the Isosceles stance.

Oh well,
at my age I'm getting too old and set in my ways to change easily.

And realistically,
I'm way more likely to die of a heart attack or stroke [ hopefully during sex ] than any Zombi attack,
so I guess I'm still good to go.
[
LAZ 1

Works great....in 3 gun, the faster folks hold out as far as they can, for fast muti target aquisition. That's what works for me....speaking of balance, my SOCOM 16 balances just in front of the mag( how many folks balance their M1A?), so right there( where I have the AFG) is max control for me. Keep in mind, I'm holding the pistol grip, that pushes the center alittle forward, so that the AFG is just forward of center.

BTw, not worried about zombies, but if a raging mad 300lb feral hog with 6" tusks or mamma bear with cubs charges me from the brush, I want to be able to control that rifle, get it on that noggin and put several rounds into it before it gets to me.


AFA pistol, I practice one hand, off hand and from the hip, as that's more realistic for me.... and I use laser, too.

 

[GeneCo]

so...in your case since you want to keep the muzzle down, I would do only the top holes... .

I don't know, I don't want to lose my sight picture. If you push on somethnig at the 45deg, it's the same as pushing from the very top.

 

[GeneCo]

that's a reasonable assumption.....

Also, I's refering to losing sight pic from flash blindness, fire coming out the top.

 

[GeneCo]

Agreed, I shoot 12 ga semi rapid fire alot and I'm a big guy( 6'1", 250lb), so I can take recoil pretty good. Add to that competition and adrenaline and focusing on getting on target and getting a good score, etc, most recoil isn't "felt" until later.

Handgun and rifle recoils are apples and oranges( you hold the hangun behind the center, but the rifle you can hold front and back), imo, but the basic principles are the same. Another thing in the recol equation is the weight and resistance the rifle encounters, there are some folks who "hold fast" to the rifle and counter it, while others "recoil" with it, perceiving less recoil.

Compared to a 12 ga, the M1A is somewhere between that and an AR, but my main focus for this gun is the ability to get follow up shots quickly, out of necessity, So muzzle flash is more important to me than flip or recoil, I just felt that doing something to the FH would make it more,,,mine.

Btw, I just got some S&B 147gr and the felt recoil( and flash) is reduced even more....I think I found the round for this gun.

 

[GeneCo]

OK,
now that you have your SOCOM 16 all set up the way you like it,
I'll throw you a curve ball ...
[ GENUINE AR 10. LAZ 1[/I][/B]

But, but, but, I have this here SOCOM 16.........sheeshola, I'd have to get all new mags and carriers and optics and slings.......I have an M4........Naw, I'll keep this.

Btw, the hogs and bear ain't nearly as big as way up there, but down here, it's more like brair rabbit and the tar pit baby( meaning in this brush, if one gets you cornered, you got nowhere to run, it's either you or it, your gun better put it down).

A Socom 16 in the hand is worth 2 Ar10 in the bush.MCORPS1

 

[GeneCo]

at night.. you won't eliminate muzzle flash on a socom compensator period....it will be a ball of fire maybe 20-30 inches in diameter... if you want to eliminate the flash, you have to use something like the SEI vortex combo.. Daytime, you won't see it for the most part, shoulldn't be an issue..good luck..

Good points.....thanks

 

[GeneCo]

I prefer a mag hold too, if I do use a fore end grip, like a broomstick, its all the way back to the mag well. Gives me better stability.

Well, in a run and gun, walking at a fast pace, swinging the rifle back and forth, engaging targets on either side of you, you'd be missing alot, holding the mag.

Folks hold out to the end as far as they can, because it puts them on target more consistantly.

Offhand, slow fire, static target, sure, hold the mag, under the mag, elbow on the hip, just like in bootcamp.

 

[GeneCo]

Btw, before I attached the AFG, I screwed and glued the rail( that the AFG secures to) on with JB weld.......I also went ahead and painted the inside of the forend with JB weld as well, to stiffen it up.

 

[GeneCo]

Im gonna have to go with you on not wanting to jump on board with all the people saying to hold your gun all the way forward (even on the AR15)

I have tried it and it does provide Foregrip control without the fore grip. However i don't like the amount of stress it puts on your arm. I'ts a race gun technique NOT a combat technique.

To each their own YMMV

I'm curious, how do you hold a SG?

Btw, have you studied how those in combat hold their M14?

I wouldn't try and take how folks hold a AR and try to transfer that to a M14. That dog don't hunt.

The M14 is more like a SG, not a AR.