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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am building a 99% Mk14 Mod 0 clone...everything should be clone correct minus my muzzle device for my suppressor (YHM).

My question is...did they ever employ an offset piggy back RDS on the Leupold 51850 optic?
 

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My question is...did they ever employ an offset piggy back RDS on the Leupold 51850 optic?
I was surprised when I looked at a Mk 14 Mod 0 Operator's Manual - no optic system is even specified (or shown). Typically SOCOM guys used two flavors of Leupold scopes that Crane/SOCOM had in their inventory, but optics were sort of "mission-specific" for SOCOM weapons, and thus a SOCOM operator had some discretion back in the MK 14 Mod 0 era (circa 2004-6ish). Night vision optics were also an option, if needed. So its possible that an offset sight could have been used on a Mk 14 Mod 0 w/ a Leupold 51850, but it would have been an individual operator's choice... That's my understanding.

Speaking of Leupold 51850s, I have a somewhat unique one that Crane apparently procured back in 2004 - it's a 2003 dated Leupold 3.5-10x scope that Premier Reticle's modified for SOCOM with a Front Focal Plane, Gen II reticle(!?). Most were apparently used on Mk 11 Mod 0s of the era, along with the UNS night vision optic, as it was felt that a FFP optic might work better with that early NV optic. Anyhow, these could have been mounted on different platforms other than a Mk 11, such as a Mk 13 Mod 0, an SPR...again, based on operator requirements/preferences. I will close by saying the Mk 14 Mod 0 was intended as a close-quarters combat weapon, so an offset RDS could have been viewed as a back-up sight for a Navy SEAL/NSW solider - but only if they were in inventory at the time. My 2cts.
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Very good. Lucky duck on that Premier variant...mine is an old school Made in USA 51850 so happy about that none the less including a KillFlash ARD...had to give up a TARS103 for it but to complete the Mk14 Mod 0 to be correct was worth it...

Back in those days...I would say it was either a Docter/Jpoint or EOtech MRDS if I remember correctly...
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Also...does anyone have a Mk14 Mod 0 operating manual that they can send via email in PDF format? I don't want to subscribe to SCRIBD...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·


@Random Guy I think you are spot on...even though this is an Army example...having piggy back red dots wasn't out of the norm...piggy back options at the time of war were Jpoints, RMRs and T1s..
 

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I am building a 99% Mk14 Mod 0 clone...everything should be clone correct minus my muzzle device for my suppressor (YHM).

My question is...did they ever employ an offset piggy back RDS on the Leupold 51850 optic?
There's none listed in the Mod 0 manual and I don't think there's any photos of a Mod 0 being used with a piggybacked optic. If any were used, it would be an extremely rare circumstance. Looking at other EBR platforms isn't helpful, those are different weapons systems with different users. Until absolute proof of their use has been found, speculation on it needs to end. Anyone can be hypothetical about anything, proof is all that matters.

Just be because offet red dots were in the system and were used on other platforms at the time, it doesn't mean that any of them were ever used on the Mod 0. There were tons of other optics available for use on the Mod 0 during that time, but we don't see any Leupold TS-30A2, NF 2.5-10x32, various S&B's, Elcans, Aimpoints, etc. being used. So, does that mean you should make a Mod 0 clone with any of those primary optics? No, and we shouldn't be treating a backup red dot sight any differently.

When I get around to making a Mod 0 clone, it won't have a red dot sight on it. I'm going to pull a photo of a Mod 0 being used in the field and I'm going to build a copy of it. I'm not going to force history to change or use some mental gymnastics to convince myself otherwise. It is what it is, no speculation needed. There's plenty of photos that show various Leupolds, NightForce, S&B Short Dot and Trijicon, so there are options for a Mod 0 build.

If someone has a photo of a military Mod 0 (not a Mod 1 or other type of EBR) with a backup red dot sight in use, please post it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·

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Agree! I got all the correct parts minus the SEI 2003 and VFG...however seen Mod 0s with and without VFGs so until I source one...it is still going to be correct.

I was even able to source a NAVSPEC grey rings for it...Scopelist surprisingly had two sets left...as of this writing...one set remains...get it while you can:

Badger Ordnance 30 mm EBR Scope Ring NavSpec Grey 1.25" Issue Item 306-29NS USED for Sale - SCOPELIST.com
I bought a pair of the newly made Mod 0 rings last year, but ended up selling them because they're a little darker than I prefer. Even though they are within spec for the Navy SEAL gray color, they aren't a light silver finish like you see on the early ones and older chassis. A few of my friends even had some sets re-anodized to match their chassis. Please post pics when you receive them!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Not too worried about matching...there are different shades anyways on issued guns...plus different lighting conditions reflect anodizing differently between part to part and such...

Anodizing sadly varies too much batch to batch for me to be OCD about it. It carries the right sku...that is what matters the most...
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Not planning on putting a piggy back red dot but would entertain it if their were any in the wild we could confirm as such...
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I did find this pic of a Mod 0 having a S&B Short Dot installed with a reversed Larue mount...so variability happened:

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I've been collecting these things for 30 plus yrs and never seen a Mod 0 with a piggy back setup on it.There were a few variations in scopes seen in the wild other than the std Leupolds but even then they were a rare occurrence and probably done by a Seal for a specific mission or task he was assigned.
 

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I did find this pic of a Mod 0 having a S&B Short Dot installed with a reversed Larue mount...so variability happened:

View attachment 458243
Obviously variability happened, I even put the Short Dot in my my original post. Even though we can find pics of the 1 or 2 Mod 0's that ever had a Short Dot or Trijicon, we still don't have any photos of a backup red dot sight. That should really put things into perspective.

In regards to the other primary optics used on Mod 0's, I still wouldn't use any of them on a clone build, since 99.999% of the Mod 0's had a Leupold scope. Just because we have a few photos like the Short Dot pic doesn't mean that these scopes were widely used (or even used on a small scale). For all, we know one of these other scopes could have been thrown on a rifle for a specific mission and then never used again.

I thought I made my point clear in my first post, there's no proof that they were used, variability means absolutely nothing if there's no proof.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Obviously variability happened, I even put the Short Dot in my my original post. Even though we can find pics of the 1 or 2 Mod 0's that ever had a Short Dot or Trijicon, we still don't have any photos of a backup red dot sight. That should really put things into perspective.

In regards to the other primary optics used on Mod 0's, I still wouldn't use any of them on a clone build, since 99.999% of the Mod 0's had a Leupold scope. Just because we have a few photos like the Short Dot pic doesn't mean that these scopes were widely used (or even used on a small scale). For all, we know one of these other scopes could have been thrown on a rifle for a specific mission and then never used again.

I thought I made my point clear in my first post, there's no proof that they were used, variability means absolutely nothing if there's no proof.
Just sharing info that is all...I have the original 51850 SKU scope coming with the original ARD KillFlash...so no sweat on my end...
 
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