M14 Forum banner

1 - 20 of 31 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
118 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Memorial Day 2014: 0715 Hrs.
This morning while choosing a shirt to wear to a Potluck at my membership only shooting range/social club, I briefly considered if my wardrobe choice facilitated concealed carry. A second thought convinced me the safest place in the USA is with a group of Americans dedicated to shooting sports, accuracy, firearms proficiency, and protection of the 2nd Amendment.
A moment later my thoughts turned to the weeks mass murder in California, then to Sandy Hook and Aurora, Colorado, and too many others. In each of these and other incidents the mental health of the shooter is the most critical factor in the equation. However, Gun Control/Gun Ban Radicals focus on the gun and do not associate the affected mind behind the finger on the trigger.
If the perpetrators of these murderous sprees are indeed insane why do they, in most cases, select only soft targets. I have never heard of an insane gunman attacking a gathering such as my shooting range potluck. I will concede that I recall some nut attacking a police station, but I think he was looking for a Suicide by Cop.
It may not be the end-all solution to gun violence, but I do believe gun safety education, shooting experience in a safe and supervised environment, and a good dose of All-American Patriotism would tend to reduce the level of gun violence in our nation.
I wish for each of you a pleasant, enjoyable and safe Memorial Day. Give thanks for those that have served, and especially for those giving the last breath of life, to protect the freedoms we enjoy each day.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
501 Posts
Make no mistake about it. (Mental health) is a catalyst for gun laws. Every ban happy, anti-2nd amendment person will use this (Mental health) issue to pass gun laws on EVERYBODY. Dont fall for the BS (Common Sense) laws that everyone seems to be onboard with.
 

·
Inquisitor
Joined
·
11,356 Posts
If the perpetrators of these murderous sprees are indeed insane why do they, in most cases, select only soft targets. I have never heard of an insane gunman attacking a gathering such as my shooting range potluck. I will concede that I recall some nut attacking a police station, but I think he was looking for a Suicide by Cop.
It may not be the end-all solution to gun violence, but I do believe gun safety education, shooting experience in a safe and supervised environment, and a good dose of All-American Patriotism would tend to reduce the level of gun violence in our nation.
Insane does not mean stupid. From some of the comments I've read recently on this forum, it seems like a lot of people don't really know much about mental illness. That's not surprising as most people don't have to deal with it, but a little self-education on the subject will make it clear that Eddie Eagle and Lee Greenwood aren't going to prevent mass murders.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,573 Posts
Insane does not mean stupid. From some of the comments I've read recently on this forum, it seems like a lot of people don't really know much about mental illness. That's not surprising as most people don't have to deal with it, but a little self-education on the subject will make it clear that Eddie Eagle and Lee Greenwood aren't going to prevent mass murders.
Many psychopaths are brilliant people. The truth about them is sometimes difficult to detect.

On the flip side, Asperger's is a widely used excuse. Shrinks use it to describe more severe illnesses to avoid embarrassment of wealthy or otherwise influential parents.... I also know some parents whose kids were diagnosed as p-schiz who claimed little Johnny has Asperger's instead.
I've also seen kids diagnosed with it when they behave more like ADHD kids.
Once the diagnosis is made, subsequent counselors seldom dig any deeper....just reaffirm the Asperger's diagnosis.

Could also be that no one wants to diagnose a young person with a misdiagnosis. Possibly the line between extreme Asperger's and paranoid schizophrenia/psychopathy is somewhat fuzzy.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,951 Posts
No matter how thorough people are "screened" there will always be a number of nut cases that are missed. It is impossible for a society to have any semblance of freedom without there also being danger. Citizens need to realize that it is their responsibility to protect themselves from others living in OUR society. LEO's are for the most part a reactionary force not a preventative force. If more good folks were armed idiots like this spoiled punk would most likely think twice before committing such hideous acts or they would be gunned down in the commission of them. JMHO!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
443 Posts
I personally hate the whole mental illness issue going on here and believe that the polititions need to stay away from it entirely exept to fund institutions that can help the people who need it in a way that provides them with a safe environment for them to live. The mental health institutions that where shut down where bad because of the way they where run but the answer that the government had to shut them down and for putting the people who needed the structure out on the street was not the answer.

My problem really is that what is considered a mental illness that can deny a citizens rights? If we let polititions take away rights of people like schizophrenics and psychopaths, people every one will say should not have weapons, then they will start adding "illnesses" to the list like ADD or people who have learning disabilities or even people who have had a DUI. Then the real issue come up because any doctor can give any person a trumped up diagnosis and make them a second class citizen who has no rights.

We need to be extreamly careful now any afront to anyone's second amendment rights is a very slippery slope that will lead to total destruction of human rights. This is only one more step in the road to a loss of freedom.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,998 Posts
Crazy people shouldn't have guns, but no law is going to keep crazy people from doing crazy things. The guy also killed 3 people with a knife. What law can you make for that?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
847 Posts
In every shooting case a family member, or people knew about the problem. They should start prosecuting those folks who knew about it and did nothing, for that crime. Akin to a bartender being liable for serving too much alcohol to a drunk driver.


Crazy, insane, unstable people should not have access to a gun. Period.


Btw, someone mentioned psychopath, that's something else entirely.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,202 Posts
As the father of a son (age 42) who was diagnosed with Asperger's, that the condition within the autism spectrum is real enough. However, as with autism, it's probably overly diagnosed in children. Some parents tend to glom onto whatever the pop mental diagnosis of the day is, and ignore the behavior and personality development of their children.

Just a few years ago, autism was diagnosed in about 1 in 170 children. That number has now dropped to about 1 in 67.

My son's autism is on the mild side, but has severe Asperger's. He has a lot of the traits of autism (fear of noise, fear of change, repeated acts of self-defeating behavior, etc.).

When he was born, in 1972, autism meant, literally "Rain Man". Our son exhibited advanced intelligence for a child of 2.5 years. He could write, add, subtract, and display problem solving skills beyond his age group. We thought we had a genius in the making. What we missed were the cues that popped up during everyday life.

We moved from a townhouse rental to our own home about eight months after his birth. When we brought him home from the hospital, we never had to feed him during the night. He slept all night most every night. When we moved, his sleep patterns changed, and not for the good. He was up at odd hours, he would cry when we put him to bed. We took him to his pediatrician, who had no clue as to the cause. It took almost a year for him to adapt to the change in housing.

We took him to a fireworks display when he was about 18 months old. He absolutely panicked at the noise. Again, no answer except to take him home. When he was in kindergarten, the field trip to the fire department ended in sheer terror on his part. He was fine until the siren sounded, and the noise made him nearly catatonic.

He still had very sharp mental acuity, but he struggled just to do the normal playing that his peers did. He was terrified of falling off a bicycle. He struggled to throw a baseball. Every athletic move was a parroted exaggeration of movement. Nothing was natural.

He could not develop peer-to-peer relationships. Everything was developing as mentor-mentee.

Elementary school was one huge disaster. His teacher couldn't stand him, because he would engage too much in why, why, why. Finally a school psychologist figured out that it was developmental, and we would be in for a long struggle. How right she was! He continues to receive therapy and counseling. He has a full time job, but lives with us. We continue to reinforce proper social interaction, but it's a daily task for my wife and I.

I don't want to drag this out, but it has to be clear, that autism and Asperger's are real issues, and there is likely never to be a "cure". Whatever progress is made is only temporary. There has to be constant reinforcement. Our own observations show that autism and Asperger's are both exacerbated by overexposure to television and other visual stimuli. Parents really need to get their kids away from the TV and computer, and get them out in the fresh air.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,573 Posts
I personally hate the whole mental illness issue going on here and believe that the polititions need to stay away from it entirely exept to fund institutions that can help the people who need it in a way that provides them with a safe environment for them to live. The mental health institutions that where shut down where bad because of the way they where run but the answer that the government had to shut them down and for putting the people who needed the structure out on the street was not the answer.

My problem really is that what is considered a mental illness that can deny a citizens rights? If we let polititions take away rights of people like schizophrenics and psychopaths, people every one will say should not have weapons, then they will start adding "illnesses" to the list like ADD or people who have learning disabilities or even people who have had a DUI. Then the real issue come up because any doctor can give any person a trumped up diagnosis and make them a second class citizen who has no rights.

We need to be extreamly careful now any afront to anyone's second amendment rights is a very slippery slope that will lead to total destruction of human rights. This is only one more step in the road to a loss of freedom.

+1

What type of person would lie, suck up to corrupt individuals, and abandon his friends to obtain a position of wherein he could subjugate others? How many mental illnesses/deviant behaviors are at work in that type of individual?....Yet politicians are not routinely analyzed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
235 Posts
Hmmm , slippery slope , as they say.

I've already heard professional experts say anyone that owns certain types of , or more than one gun is crazy.

A diploma or degree doesn't make one intelligent.
Exactly, +1, couldn't agree more.

It'd be one thing if mental illness was something that could turn up in blood work, something there could be no question of whether or not you have it, and how bad it is.

But I can imagine the antis cackling with delight at the possibilities this presents for them, to strip countless people of their gun rights while making it look like they're making the world a safer place.

Google "Justina Pelletier" to see just how many rights a State like Massachusetts will strip away from a child and her family in the name of said child's "mental health." Even if the child and her family don't live in the State....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
959 Posts
Crazy people shouldn't have guns, but no law is going to keep crazy people from doing crazy things. The guy also killed 3 people with a knife. What law can you make for that?
So they only mention the 7 killed with a firearm to avoid mentioning that he actually murdered 10. Hmmmmmmmmmm...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,997 Posts
So they only mention the 7 killed with a firearm to avoid mentioning that he actually murdered 10. Hmmmmmmmmmm...
I think he killed 7 . 3 with a knife
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
160 Posts
Why is everyone so afraid to recognize that most of the mass murderers of the past recent years using a gun for the crime have been Democrats or raised in Democrat households.

I suspect the Moderators will edit out this post as it is not politically correct...I understand the need to be politically correct these days. Everybody in Little League gets a trophy, we are all the same, everybody loves everybody, yada, yada, yada,.... but the truth is everyone is entitled to their opinions and not entitled to change the facts.

I don't suspect we will see the Holder Justice Department commission a study on the political affiliations of those who have committed mass murder with a firearm.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
215 Posts
Gate Keepers

I have family that work in the mental health field.The last thing they want to do is take our gun rights away.There problem is they are swamped . There is such a thing as Gate keepers, if you let to many into the facility you are admonished.Some times all they can do is tie them up for three days and let them go.No matter who they say there going to kill, or what they say there going to do.That is what you get when you cut money for mental health.There simply is not enough money or facility's to deal with these people.So yes they do turn people loose that want to kill you ,for no good reason. I know
i am just opening myself up to ridicule .But i still think it needed to be said.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,318 Posts
I have family that work in the mental health field.The last thing they want to do is take our gun rights away.There problem is they are swamped . There is such a thing as Gate keepers, if you let to many into the facility you are admonished.Some times all they can do is tie them up for three days and let them go.No matter who they say there going to kill, or what they say there going to do.That is what you get when you cut money for mental health.There simply is not enough money or facility's to deal with these people.So yes they do turn people loose that want to kill you ,for no good reason. I know
i am just opening myself up to ridicule .But i still think it needed to be said.
Your bringing up a very valid point, ridicule should be the last thing you experience. As you say one can be Bat Ship crazy, running amok and nothing can be done, more of them are in line waiting for the room, cut them loose, we've no room , funds or legal means. Using Mental Health as a political football to institute gun control , the parameters could be so broad , people [me included] can see such potential for abuse . If you object to this potential abuse, their standard response could quite easily become "So your in favor of insane people being armed?"
 
  • Like
Reactions: north cal

·
Registered
Joined
·
452 Posts
It's The Parents

Go read ' People Of The Lie ' by a very deep & intuitive psychologist ( very rare ) named M Scott Peck, a 70's book.

In it Dr Peck tells You the reader about a half dozens of his personal cases of truly un-loving narcissistic parents who by all outwardly casual observation seam to be the all American parents and family, but after intensively interviewing the children who were sent to Dr Peck for therapy because of the what the parents say is the child's odd behavior Dr Peck finds that in every case the child is only depressed and anti social and mal adjusted because the parents are malignantly narcissistic ( evil ) masquerading as good people literally driving the kids to psychosis and suicidal actions.

Remember this is pre- Prozac - pre killer video game and so most of those kids grew up and out of it, now they all go over the edge into psycho killer.

The parents when Dr Peck speaks to them about their child's recounting their lack of love and empathy ALL of them go into complete and total denial and blame the kid for not appreciating the wealth , the schooling, the gifts, the privileged, the nanny etc.... and they all want the kid to be medicated , or institutionalized or sent to another Dr .

Dr Peck coined the psychological term for Evil, He called is 'Malignant Narcissism' in this state of mind the sociopathic parent / parents would project their own evil or crazy thoughts onto the kids , sometimes just to stamp out the child's light so to speak.

The children all seamed to be some morbidly pre arraigned family unit props to help the parents fit into a social order / group and / or mistakes of sexual unions 9 months earlier , made to feel guilty for being blessed by such 'wonderful ' parents.

You drive by the nice house, You see them are picnics and think wow what a great nuclear upper middle class family but You dont know the void behind the doors !

The father of this latest psycho killer was into porn making with young women 'and' making movies about teenagers who go on killing spree's

Most of the time were You find a psychopathic or sociopathic child You will find a massive huge void of love , no good example, no understanding and empathy coming from the parents or lack of any balanced parentage at all .

Yes I and many of You come from single parent and really lousy childhood, but like Muslim terrorist, not all Muslims are terrorists ah but almost all terrorists are Muslim .

Show me a psycho killer and I will show You at least one of the parents who is a black vacuum of zero understanding with bright eyes yet a dead soul who by all accounts looks alive but who killed the psyche of the child long ago before he turned into a full grown killer.
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
Top