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Discussion Starter #1
Using Winchester primers, I am getting 100% reliable ignition on my .308 reloads for my M1a/M14 platforms.
I have worked up good loads that group well and do not experience any excessive primer deformation or case damage.
But the best groups rested at 100 yards remain about 1.5 inches..whether scoped or iron sighted.
I figured that was generally the limitation of the platform as a battle rifle.

But I am wondering now if the primers may be playing more of a role than I realized.

How sensitive is the platform to different primers and what gives you the best groups?

I also have some CCI mil primers to try out and have some CCI BR2's as well.

For my purposes now, I want to squeeze out minimum groups, not just dependable mil-spc'd clone ammo for plinking.

Ideas, suggestions?

In my .223 Rem 700 VSSF bolt gun, BR4 primers make a huge difference in tightening up groups and I am hoping their BR2's for Large Rifle will give me similar results.

I'm using Bartlett's Russian 4895, but will also be trying Accurate 4064 and have H335, BLC2 and Varget too.
 

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Some will say only to use Mil Spec primers. I have personally used all but Fed GMM primers as they have a reputation for high sensitivity. The main thing to be aware of with seating primers is to make sure they are seated below flush with the case head.
 

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In my years of shooting, I've found that primers are all an equally variable component of accurate rounds. With some loads, Winchester primers gives me the best accuracy while, in others, another primer will give better results. Doesn't always correlate with the use of "match" primers. I just try to keep at least a small quantity of various primers so that I have a variety to try when working up a load.
 

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I've never seen a measurable difference. I now use use Winchester large rifle and Wolf magnum on 5.56 and have for quite awhile. Consistency is the most important factor in ballistics and reloading,shooting for that matter. I don't think match or bench rest primers will make a large improvement in a good load. Maybe to a 1000 yd. bench rest shooter but not XTC.
 

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I don't think you will see any difference with a service rifle - scoped or not. But prove it to yourself!

And I prolly repeat myself, but Jeff's russian 4895 was way to slow for me. ie, fill the case and velocity was low. I use it for 30-06 or plinkers only.
 

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One rifle of mine has a nice load that uses them. Not gonna mess with perfection in that case. So I do see a difference there.
Can't see it with other rifles I own but something in the back of my mind thinks maybe I'll get lucky, so every now and then I try them against a load.
 

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BR primers are really the same thing, they are just held to tighter tolerances if that makes sense. You may have more luck at swapping to a different make all together. Usually BR primers are used to keep low Es and variances down but on target this could equate to only small tenth or even hundredths of an inch variances. The Wolf primers are getting rave reviews from target shooters, might try some before spending almost twice the amount on BR primers. I bought a brick on accident (cci br-2) for my 6.5x47 before I realized I needed small rifle not large, doh! So i have been using them in my M1a with no noticeable difference either good or bar.
 

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Primers

If you really want to see if there is a difference, get a box or two of the Federal Gold 168 rounds. They're loaded with Sierra 168 bthp Matchkings and Federal Benchrest primers specified velocity is 2650 fps. Try them under the same conditions next to your reloads.

My normal loads are 40 grains of AA2520 under a Sierra or Hornady 168 grain BTHP with WIN large rifle primers. I'm trying to set this test up now (gotta find the time...) and would be interested in seeing your results as a comparison to my results.
 

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But the best groups rested at 100 yards remain about 1.5 inches..whether scoped or iron sighted.

For my purposes now, I want to squeeze out minimum groups, not just dependable mil-spc'd clone ammo for plinking.

Ideas, suggestions?
Since you did not specify what bullet you are using, but stated "mil-spc'd clone ammo" my guess you are using 147-150 military bullets. If you are getting 1.5 inches with those pills you are probably at the max potential of the pills. My guess, primers will not help that much if any at all.

Match grade bullets will most likely do more for your groups, than match primers. For my practice rounds with the M14/M1A when I am lazy to prep brass I just push/pull SA ammo and replace with 135 SMKs. This concocted ammo will clean the reduced 300 at 2 shooting them prone slow fire. I don't know how they will do at 100, I've never shot any of my rifles at 100.
 

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Bamban,
Just out of curiosity, is there any particular lots of SA 308
do you use. I heard some were loaded hot. Also is there
any problem pulling the bullets with the laquer sealant?
Thanks, Rich.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
168 Nosler BTHP 2nds.
I am also going to AA 4064 from Jeff Bartlett Russian 4895.
Should have some potential for a bit of a difference.
Hopefully better.
 
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