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I got into a debate with an elderly fellow who served right after Korea and he didn't think the Browning .50 was a reliable machine gun.
Any comments?
Any comments?
Ma Deuce reliability
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The reliability of the Browning M2 HB is dependent on the crew serving the weapon.
Headspace it wrong, time it wrong, it will not work. Did many a stint as Range NCOIC and PM Instructor with M2 rookies and saw it happen with those that did not pay attention.
There are other things that can destroy the long term reliability too. Not withdrawing the extension to the proper spot while installing the barrel will damage the little barrel locking lug/spring. Once that is worn to a useless nub, the barrel will unscrew during firing. I don't know how it was done, but I have also seen the lock for the bolt latch bent so it would not positively lock the latch down.
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My troubles could mostly be the feed tray inside my M60A3 Tank Commanders cupola. No matter how hard you tried to lay out the ammo belt in the tray it seemed to catch and bind on anything and everything. It was common to continually unbind the ammo belt and charge it to feed another round.
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I served in the late 60's, and never heard the term ma-deuce while in the service. Served 2 tours in VN with the Seabees, and everyone(Marines and Navy) called them "50 cals", or just "50". Our machinist mounted a scope on a .50 for some Marines(Hathcock?) in Phu Bai in '67. What did you ma-deuce people call a quad 50?
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If headspace and timing is correctly set correctly they are pretty reliable. Machine guns have malfunctions so as long as it doesn't try to copy the m249 saw and turn into a belt fed bolt gun I'm happy. One of the big problems is lack of knowledge when it comes to setting the timing, and cleaning the chamber. Nothing more fun than trying to realize why it won't chamber a round because it ripped the back of the case off.
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Think how many .50's were on the bombers and fighters during WW2.
I don't ever remember reading about the air crews complaining that their .50's were unreliable.
If the gun was unreliable then it would have been replaced long ago.
I don't ever remember reading about the air crews complaining that their .50's were unreliable.
If the gun was unreliable then it would have been replaced long ago.
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I was a .50 gunner during my deployment to Afghanistan. If the platform is assembled, timed, and headspaced correctly it will function as it should. One of our .50's had rusted real bad and still worked fine (the team we replaced never cleaned it their entire rotation. Dirtbags.)
Perhaps your friend was never taught or provided with the proper setup instructions?
Perhaps your friend was never taught or provided with the proper setup instructions?
I lost all my firearms in the Rio Grande when the barge hit a sandbar and sank.
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I used to set mine up exactly as I was taught and never had any problems -- and we'd abuse ours in the air by burning through boxes as fast as we could. Once in a blue moon I'd get an interruption to the cycle. Pull the handle, catch the unexpended round, toss it out the window. What do you ground guys do with those, just re-link them?.
I had buddies who used to like to try and play with the timing on theirs. They had more issues than I did.
I had buddies who used to like to try and play with the timing on theirs. They had more issues than I did.
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TRAINNG!!!!
During the firefight he had to change out the barrel!! He said he was never so glad he paid attention to the DI and armory guys about counting clicks for the timing on the barrel. Put the 50 back in action. TRAINING!!!!!
I for one have not had the Honor of having that training, but he was a Marine thru and thu.. L/Clp Item 3/7 , RIP Marine
I think I'll add to this. Before the old man passed on I remember talking to him about his 50 in Korea. During a firefight at a little Marine out post named Reno in "52" I think, the Chinese over-ran the post twice in one night. Each time they were pushed back!!!
During the firefight he had to change out the barrel!! He said he was never so glad he paid attention to the DI and armory guys about counting clicks for the timing on the barrel. Put the 50 back in action. TRAINING!!!!!
I for one have not had the Honor of having that training, but he was a Marine thru and thu.. L/Clp Item 3/7 , RIP Marine
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I would have brought up the headspace/timing and maintenance issues with him but since he's had this opinion since the 1950's I don't think logic was going to sway him.
I don't think we had ammo quality issues that would have been an issue like they were back in WWI.
In WWI Eddie Rickenbacker knew a lot of machine gun stoppages in their aircraft were due to ammo issues. With his machinist background he had a template made and had his ground crew check every round to the template before loading in the belts for his aircraft. After that his guns rarely jammed.
I don't think we had ammo quality issues that would have been an issue like they were back in WWI.
In WWI Eddie Rickenbacker knew a lot of machine gun stoppages in their aircraft were due to ammo issues. With his machinist background he had a template made and had his ground crew check every round to the template before loading in the belts for his aircraft. After that his guns rarely jammed.
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It has been referred to as "Ma Deuce" in reference to its M2 nomenclature. The design has had many specific designations; the official designation for the current infantry type is Browning Machine Gun, Cal. .50, M2, HB, Flexible.
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But, the copula MG on an M60 Tank was an M85, not an M2....
The M85 never managed to achieve the reliability of the M2, even though it eliminated the head spacing issues when replacing the barrel.
That term came about to differentiate it from the other "fifty cal", the M85.
The Navy never got the M85, and the Marines didn't get them until 1972 when they got the LVTP-7 and the M-60.
Then they got rid of them about 10 years later, at least on the track. The M2 won't fit in the M60's copula, so I think it stuck around until the M60s were retired.
I think we are still using stocks of fifty ammo from the Korean era...
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As lysander pointed out, the reliability of the weapon depends on those operating and servicing it. The design is sound.
If the parts are worn out, the timing and headspace are off and the shooter tries 2-3 round bursts, it will give you a bad taste.
Much like the M60. They were good reliable weapons during the '60s and early '70s. By the 1980's, twenty years of abuse, neglect and budget cuts turned many of them to unreliable junk.
If the parts are worn out, the timing and headspace are off and the shooter tries 2-3 round bursts, it will give you a bad taste.
Much like the M60. They were good reliable weapons during the '60s and early '70s. By the 1980's, twenty years of abuse, neglect and budget cuts turned many of them to unreliable junk.
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if anything, look at the .50s service life, that should tell you something. I loved it and every .50 I shot was perfect in operation, however, just like any machine if you don't take care of it-it will fail. which is why youre supposed to clean them and why every unit has an armorer...
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Although, some of the M60s off the production line had problems. Like the M14, early production quality control was lacking.
Somewhere I have a report on that....
The M60s we had in 1991, when you picked them up by the carry handle, you could see oil working out of the rivets that held the barrel trunnion to the sheet steel receiver. The worst of the lot, you could sight down the side and see the barrel droop.
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