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M40 clone on GB, closing in 13 hours, over $5K!

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An admitted clone, scope (may) be original, or re anodized Gen 1. Early receiver, pre contract. Stock doesnt look right, especially the forward end of it.

Barrel is perhaps correct, dated '66 he says.
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Can you elaborate on the follower mod?
They would grind off the tabs located on the bottom of stamped follower. Which reminds me! I would like to examine the trigger as well to see if it’s the correct era trigger.
 

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“They” being RTE
 
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Hey historian, you may remember, you sent me a correct modified follower and a set of 1-64 low rings and "dared" me to build a clone. :eek: At the time I wasn't interested in doing an M40, so I decided to make it a long-term project. Placed a WTB add on arfcom looking for a .308 M700 but specified a sn between 168,000 and 169,000 figuring no one would ever reply. Within 3 weeks I received an offer for the 168,73X and well, had to buy it.o_O
Then oddly enough, shortly after receiving the rifle, a seller on ebay offered a real barrel, ( code date makes it either an April or August 1966 barrel, I forget off hand). Start price of $400. Later during the week of that auction, the seller put up a real M40 stock. No one bid on the barrel but me, the stock shot up to over $1400.
I was concerned about shipping as I had a freebie 26 in PSS barrel sent to me from a member of this and other forums we are both on, poke a hole in the triangle box and go missing. Ebay seller was in Fl, and not far from a good friend from arfcom. He agreed to meet the seller, pack barrel real well and send to me. My Buddy told me the seller was a real "tin foil hat" type. His father had a museum somewhere in the mid west. He passed. He had a couple of real M40s along with, well a museum full of stuff. This seller (son) was paranoid and most all military firearms the dad had got broken down and sold for parts but anything with a US or property of US on it was cut up. He was afraid the govt would come calling.
 

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Hey historian, you may remember, you sent me a correct modified follower and a set of 1-64 low rings and "dared" me to build a clone. :eek: At the time I wasn't interested in doing an M40, so I decided to make it a long-term project. Placed a WTB add on arfcom looking for a .308 M700 but specified a sn between 168,000 and 169,000 figuring no one would ever reply. Within 3 weeks I received an offer for the 168,73X and well, had to buy it.o_O
Then oddly enough, shortly after receiving the rifle, a seller on ebay offered a real barrel, ( code date makes it either an April or August 1967 barrel, I forget off hand). Start price of $400. Later during the week of that auction, the seller put up a real M40 stock. No one bid on the barrel but me, the stock shot up to over $1400.
I was concerned about shipping as I had a freebie 26 in PSS barrel sent to me from a member of this and other forums we are both on, poke a hole in the triangle box and go missing. Ebay seller was in Fl, and not far from a good friend from arfcom. He agreed to meet the seller, pack barrel real well and send to me. My Buddy told me the seller was a real "tin foil hat" type. His father had a museum somewhere in the mid west. He passed. He had a couple of real M40s along with, well a museum full of stuff. This seller (son) was paranoid and most all military firearms the dad had got broken down and sold for parts but anything with a US or property of US on it was cut up. He was afraid the govt would come calling.
I do big bro. Created a monster!
I do remember you telling me that some years ago. I do wonder what happened to those parts. Floating out there somewhere.
 

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What was the reason for doing that I wonder?
I’ve always wondered myself. I’m away from my notes and reference material at the moment. When I return home I will look and see.
 
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I agree with what you wrote. However, you missed my info regarding 'NAM era mounts. To be correct 'Nam era it must be square and marked 40x. You are right about the mount transitioning to rounded corners. ESPECIALLY during the M40A1 development process. So in that regard I do agree with you.

On the barrel. It is possible to be legit. I own two of the civvie barrels myself and yes, they do have the massive roll mark. The civilian offering of the "M40" was released to the public in 1967. But yes, the caliber wan't released till '75-76.
The barrel on the gunbroker rifle could be legit, but with everything else wrong with the rifle, I'm not going to even give it the benefit of the doubt. Especially so with a seller that's being purposely deceitful with the auction write-up. Due to the caliber and the barrel date stamps, there's only 2 options for that barrel: 1) it's a real USMC M40 barrel that has been refinished, or 2) it's a new barrel with new stamps.

I asked Mark Williams if this was a rifle that he built and he doesn't remember off the top of his head (FFL bound books with that info are put away right now, he'd have to dig them out). Here's what he texted me in regards to identifying one of the rifle he built:

"To know if it was truly mine I used 3 stamps on the bottom of the barrel. Either an MW, an
M
W on top of each other or RR back to back with the completion date."

- Mark Williams, Raven Rifles


Mark builds some very good clones so this is great information to have. Now we're able quickly and easily tell if a clone was built by him, so everyone reading this should keep a copy of this information with the rest of their research.

I also have 2 Remington 700 322xxx rifles that were made in earlier 1968, one of which has the correct varmint special contour barrel like the USMC M40's. Both barrel have the billboard rollmarks. The rifle with the varmint special barrel is chambered in 6mm Remington and I need to grab some ammo for it. It's a beautiful rifle (I absolutely love the older Remington 700's and Winchester M70's) and the trigger feels absolutely perfect! The previous owner of this rifle spent a ton of time and effort making small adjustments like this to the rifle.

It's really a shame to have to pull it apart in order to use the receiver, bolt and trigger as donor parts for an M40A1 build. I might have to shoot out the original 6mm Rem barrel and then pull it apart.

@usmchistorian, you've got a lot of M40 knowledge and it's always enjoyable discussing M40 stuff with a fellow historian/researcher/collector who also knows the fine details and obscure information for these rifles. However, I'm going to disagree with you on the "NAM era" 40X bases only being squared corners and no round corners.

I'll post some photos later, but I have two 40X bases with 322xxx serial numbers engraved on them. The 322xxx rifles came in early 1968, right before the GCA of '68 kicked in and Remington started renumbering their Model 700's later in 1968 with a 7 digit serial number. So, we can accurately determine when the 322xxx were made for the Marine Corps and there are at least half a dozen Redfield 40X bases with 322xxx serial numbers engraved in the middle of them (different engraving location from the earlier M40's, which was at the front left side of the base).

Interestingly, my 40X 322706 base has squared corners, whereas the 40X 322741 base has rounded corners in the front and squared corners in the back. The Marines were still fighting bloody battles in Vietnam during this time, so we can definitely prove that rounded corners were definitely used on 'NAM era mounts. The 6257xxx rifles that were built in 1969 are Vietnam era as well and those rifles had the Redfield 700SA bases. Using this information, it appears that Redfield ended production of the 40X bases about the same time Remington switched to the 7 digit serial number range.

Here's what I'm thinking we can both agree upon. Only 99 M40's ever went to Vietnam (it's very well documented in Senich's books), none of those rifle were sent out of country for higher echelon maintenance when they became unserviceable and no new rifles came into Vietnam after the last of the 99 rifles were shipped there (they appear to have been sent in batches). The initial USMC order of 700 M40's was processed and delivered to the Corps in 1966 and the first shipments of M40's to Vietnam happened in early 1967.

The 40X bases that were on the first 550 of the 700 initial M40 order, including the ones sent to Vietnam probably all had squared corners. I can't recall seeing a 40X base with rounded corners with a serial number that's engraved on the front left side (the engraving location of the 1966 order). I just checked all of my 40X bases and the only ones with squared corners are sterile, there's no engraved information on them. These were obviously replacement bases and weren't part of the initial order for 550 complete M40's (rifles with scopes). Another interesting piece of information is that the other 150 M40's in the 700 rifle order were sent to the Corps without a scope, those M40's actually had a different FSN number than the 550 M40's that had scopes.

So, instead of saying that only squared corner 40X bases were used in the 'NAM era, we should be saying that only squared corner bases were sent to Vietnam and that the first 550 M40's might have all had squared corner 40X bases. Later 40X bases with rounded corners appeared on the 322xxx M40's and on replacement bases. These rounded corner 40X bases were still part of the Vietnam War era M40's, but were probably never sent to war and were probably never part of the initial order of 550 scoped M40's. This was happening long before the transitional M40A1's were even first thought of, so these rounded corner bases are still solidly part of the original 6 digit M40's.
 

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Here is my submission, the scope appears really lime green, it's not that bad. It was more like the green on the auction rifle when I got it back from Tokie,, it seems to be changing over time towards a hint of the olive (OD3 ish) tone. It's an early civy accurange with the 200-600 tombstone. The scope base is a vintage (old box) M700 that usmchistorian had a buddy weld the round corners, weld the M700 on the underside. Filed the corners square, I hand stamped 40X with WW2 dog tag stamp kit (font is larger than a correct 40X mark so no one is ever fooled in the future. I got lucky, the very 1st time I typed Vissing Supreme scope caps into ebay, this NOS set popped up .It's flashed out but in red ink in the white area is marked Redfield 3x9. NOS sling is 1965 dated, am hoping to find a M1907 sling with a 66 date. I would love to add more original parts to this rifle, ie: stock, scope, and base,, but as they became popular, it became a rich man's game. I do owe a big thank you to 1st usmchistorian for "daring me" to build it, and then usmcsgt0331 for all the info and photos he so freely shared on another forum.
PS, I confirmed the barrel marking since I had it out.
W= August, N=1966


Wood Wood stain Rectangle Floor Flooring

Trigger Revolver Air gun Gun accessory Shotgun
Product Sleeve Textile Bag Khaki
 

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The barrel on the gunbroker rifle could be legit, but with everything else wrong with the rifle, I'm not going to even give it the benefit of the doubt. Especially so with a seller that's being purposely deceitful with the auction write-up. Due to the caliber and the barrel date stamps, there's only 2 options for that barrel: 1) it's a real USMC M40 barrel that has been refinished, or 2) it's a new barrel with new stamps.

I asked Mark Williams if this was a rifle that he built and he doesn't remember off the top of his head (FFL bound books with that info are put away right now, he'd have to dig them out). Here's what he texted me in regards to identifying one of the rifle he built:


"To know if it was truly mine I used 3 stamps on the bottom of the barrel. Either an MW, an
M
W on top of each other or RR back to back with the completion date."

- Mark Williams, Raven Rifles

Mark builds some very good clones so this is great information to have. Now we're able quickly and easily tell if a clone was built by him, so everyone reading this should keep a copy of this information with the rest of their research.

I also have 2 Remington 700 322xxx rifles that were made in earlier 1968, one of which has the correct varmint special contour barrel like the USMC M40's. Both barrel have the billboard rollmarks. The rifle with the varmint special barrel is chambered in 6mm Remington and I need to grab some ammo for it. It's a beautiful rifle (I absolutely love the older Remington 700's and Winchester M70's) and the trigger feels absolutely perfect! The previous owner of this rifle spent a ton of time and effort making small adjustments like this to the rifle.

It's really a shame to have to pull it apart in order to use the receiver, bolt and trigger as donor parts for an M40A1 build. I might have to shoot out the original 6mm Rem barrel and then pull it apart.

@usmchistorian, you've got a lot of M40 knowledge and it's always enjoyable discussing M40 stuff with a fellow historian/researcher/collector who also knows the fine details and obscure information for these rifles. However, I'm going to disagree with you on the "NAM era" 40X bases only being squared corners and no round corners.

I'll post some photos later, but I have two 40X bases with 322xxx serial numbers engraved on them. The 322xxx rifles came in early 1968, right before the GCA of '68 kicked in and Remington started renumbering their Model 700's later in 1968 with a 7 digit serial number. So, we can accurately determine when the 322xxx were made for the Marine Corps and there are at least half a dozen Redfield 40X bases with 322xxx serial numbers engraved in the middle of them (different engraving location from the earlier M40's, which was at the front left side of the base).

Interestingly, my 40X 322706 base has squared corners, whereas the 40X 322741 base has rounded corners in the front and squared corners in the back. The Marines were still fighting bloody battles in Vietnam during this time, so we can definitely prove that rounded corners were definitely used on 'NAM era mounts. The 6257xxx rifles that were built in 1969 are Vietnam era as well and those rifles had the Redfield 700SA bases. Using this information, it appears that Redfield ended production of the 40X bases about the same time Remington switched to the 7 digit serial number range.

Here's what I'm thinking we can both agree upon. Only 99 M40's ever went to Vietnam (it's very well documented in Senich's books), none of those rifle were sent out of country for higher echelon maintenance when they became unserviceable and no new rifles came into Vietnam after the last of the 99 rifles were shipped there (they appear to have been sent in batches). The initial USMC order of 700 M40's was processed and delivered to the Corps in 1966 and the first shipments of M40's to Vietnam happened in early 1967.

The 40X bases that were on the first 550 of the 700 initial M40 order, including the ones sent to Vietnam probably all had squared corners. I can't recall seeing a 40X base with rounded corners with a serial number that's engraved on the front left side (the engraving location of the 1966 order). I just checked all of my 40X bases and the only ones with squared corners are sterile, there's no engraved information on them. These were obviously replacement bases and weren't part of the initial order for 550 complete M40's (rifles with scopes). Another interesting piece of information is that the other 150 M40's in the 700 rifle order were sent to the Corps without a scope, those M40's actually had a different FSN number than the 550 M40's that had scopes.

So, instead of saying that only squared corner 40X bases were used in the 'NAM era, we should be saying that only squared corner bases were sent to Vietnam and that the first 550 M40's might have all had squared corner 40X bases. Later 40X bases with rounded corners appeared on the 322xxx M40's and on replacement bases. These rounded corner 40X bases were still part of the Vietnam War era M40's, but were probably never sent to war and were probably never part of the initial order of 550 scoped M40's. This was happening long before the transitional M40A1's were even first thought of, so these rounded corner bases are still solidly part of the original 6 digit M40's.
Yes I would agree. And I should clarify my poor choice of vernacular. When I say ‘Nam era, specifically I mean fielded in the war. Or in country more specially.
 

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They ground down the 2 tags on the underside of the magazine follower to get a 5th round to fit into the internal magazine well.
Yes

What’s interesting is I never had a problem loading 5 into the magazine prior to the mod. At least with the combo I had. Who knows??
 

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Yes

What’s interesting is I never had a problem loading 5 into the magazine prior to the mod. At least with the combo I had. Who knows??
Just tried it with my 322xxx rifle, only 4 rounds of 7.62 fit. I have no idea how you would get 5 rounds in there without having either the mag follower mod or a much smaller caliber than the 7.62x51.
 

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Just tried it with my 322xxx rifle, only 4 rounds of 7.62 fit. I have no idea how you would get 5 rounds in there without having either the mag follower mod or a much smaller caliber than the 7.62x51.
It’s been awhile. I sold all my 40 stuff years ago to pay for kids. But I seem to recall loading 5. But at 43 maybe my mind is starting to slip?? Oh dear God. Lol.
 
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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
Here is my submission, the scope appears really lime green, it's not that bad. It was more like the green on the auction rifle when I got it back from Tokie,, it seems to be changing over time towards a hint of the olive (OD3 ish) tone. It's an early civy accurange with the 300-900 tombstone. The scope base is a vintage (old box) M700 that usmchistorian had a buddy weld the round corners, weld the M700 on the underside. Filed the corners square, I hand stamped 40X with WW2 dog tag stamp kit (font is larger than a correct 40X mark so no one is ever fooled in the future. I got lucky, the very 1st time I typed Vissing Supreme scope caps into ebay, this NOS set popped up .It's flashed out but in red ink in the white area is marked Redfield 3x9. NOS sling is 1965 dated, am hoping to find a M1907 sling with a 66 date. I would love to add more original parts to this rifle, ie: stock, scope, and base,, but as they became popular, it became a rich man's game. I do owe a big thank you to 1st usmchistorian for "daring me" to build it, and then usmcsgt0331 for all the info and photos he so freely shared on another forum.
PS, I confirmed the barrel marking since I had it out.
W= August, N=1966


View attachment 485240
View attachment 485241 View attachment 485242
300-900 Tombstone? I have seen 450 and 600, but never knew 900 existed. I have two that go to 600 and one that goes to 450 on my 700 ADL sporter in .308 Win.
My very first high power hunting rifle was the same thing and vintage.
 

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Hello,
A lot of very good info on the Remington M40's and M40A1 rifles here. I've book marked this post, for sure. I have an 9/67 six digit SN 303xxx VS in 6 mm Remington, that I've been thinking about re-barreling to .308 just for kicks(after I shoot out the original and another low count barrel). The rifle is amazing and the factory trigger breaks like glass every time, so dependable...
Oh, and I lost track of who needed ammo for the 6mm Rem. but, I have plenty of new brass if you reload... Again, the knowledge found in this post is fantastic, thanks guys.
 
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