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Well, I'm sure that this dead horse has already been beaten into glue, but even with the Search box I couldn't quite find all the answers, so here goes.

I am looking to get a .308 DMR-type rifle: good rate of fire, portable, accurate enough - though not some 1500m laser.

For some reason I can't explain (OK, it was definitely that COD4 mission and the BHD movie - but I'm a man now!), I have always liked the M14 type, specifically in the M21 config w/20 round mag. Now I realize that there are modern rifles that are more optimized for this role (Kitted out SCAR, REPR, etc) with better ergo, weight, and maybe even accuracy. If I was going into a real combat zone and just wanted to stay alive, then I'd probably take one. But thats not the point, as I also want a gun that appeals to me and is fun to shoot, since the change that I will actually use it for fighting is pretty small (no reason to be unprepared though). That said, I am trying to get some realistic feed back on whether an M1A is good enough for my needs. So:

- 1. Is it possible to make one that is still reliable (in terms of wear and adverse conditions) but consistently delivers 1 MOA out to 800M.

- 2. Is it possible to get a solid, reliable centerline optic mount that doesn't interfere with function. I have heard that a mounting right over the receiver can interfere with ejection and cause brass to ricochet, or fall back into the action?

- 3. It is true that accuracy is finicky and requires constant fiddling or it will degrade?

-4. If it is possible to get what I want, any estimates on what I'm looking at in price for the fully tuned set-up (excepting optics). I would prefer as close to Mil-Spec, with as many genuine parts as possible (any legit stamps/markings are a bonus).

Thanks.
 

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Welcome to the forum.

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. It will degrade over the course of many rounds fired, but so will any rifle.

4. In order to answer that one needs to go a little further into the weeds. Forged or cast receiver, sighting, barrel make, custom or factory.. you see where its going.
 

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From my limited time here, there seem to be 2 routes to accuracy. You go with a wood stock and bed it, it can be more complicated than that unless you send it to someone who knows what they are doing. The other way seems to be a chassis like a Sage Intl. Look up rifles like the Mk.14 or M39 emr. If you use a reputable mount company you would probably not encounter issues with the brass, seems that would be a possible ejector issue. These are reliable rifles, it's a product improved Garand which did pretty good in some war a few years ago.

For the All original and USGI, look at the PX here, rifles like that come up for sale at a good price, but varies on model and make.
 

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1. M1A National Match or Super Match
2. Sadlak Titanium Mount
3. All rifles do this.
4. $1900-$2700ish?

I built an AR10 and love it but my Loaded EBR is the bee's knees.

Russ
 

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welcome and do look and explore
 

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Well, I'm sure that this dead horse has already been beaten into glue, but even with the Search box I couldn't quite find all the answers, so here goes.

I am looking to get a .308 DMR-type rifle: good rate of fire, portable, accurate enough - though not some 1500m laser.

For some reason I can't explain (OK, it was definitely that COD4 mission and the BHD movie - but I'm a man now!), I have always liked the M14 type, specifically in the M21 config w/20 round mag. Now I realize that there are modern rifles that are more optimized for this role (Kitted out SCAR, REPR, etc) with better ergo, weight, and maybe even accuracy. If I was going into a real combat zone and just wanted to stay alive, then I'd probably take one. But thats not the point, as I also want a gun that appeals to me and is fun to shoot, since the change that I will actually use it for fighting is pretty small (no reason to be unprepared though). That said, I am trying to get some realistic feed back on whether an M1A is good enough for my needs. So:

- 1. Is it possible to make one that is still reliable (in terms of wear and adverse conditions) but consistently delivers 1 MOA out to 800M.

- 2. Is it possible to get a solid, reliable centerline optic mount that doesn't interfere with function. I have heard that a mounting right over the receiver can interfere with ejection and cause brass to ricochet, or fall back into the action?

- 3. It is true that accuracy is finicky and requires constant fiddling or it will degrade?

-4. If it is possible to get what I want, any estimates on what I'm looking at in price for the fully tuned set-up (excepting optics). I would prefer as close to Mil-Spec, with as many genuine parts as possible (any legit stamps/markings are a bonus).

Thanks.

I'm no expert but I'll give you some of my opinions to try to answer your questions.

1) I don't think you can be assured of 1MOA (5 round group) with any given M1A rifle build.... but if you built it right and you are a great shooter its definitely do-able. This is the hardest to answer in a short response so I'll just suggest you read some on the accuracy part of this forum as there is some good info there. Overall I've seen rifles on this forum that shoot between 0.5 MOA -> 3 MOA... barrel and stock seem to be huge players in accuracy.

2) This ones easy to answer. Research the Bula M21 DMR receiver, it has a built in scope mount but also backup sights, very slick. Another option is Bula XM21 (no sights as made for an optic). That being said just buying a regular M1A/M14 receiver and you can get good scope mounts. A lot of guys have good luck on here with Sadlak and Bassett mounts (among others).

3) I can't really think of anything that would "degrade accuracy" on an M1A that is different from any other rifle (i.e. long term barrel degredation). I guess M1A's are different from polymer guns in that wood stocks can, over extended periods of time with a lot of taking receiver in and out of stock, compress slightly which could lead to an accuracy degradation. If the stock is compressed there is always bedding the action to the stock and from what I've seen the cost of this isn't too bad. If you want to avoid any "degradation" then you could always go with a stock of an alternate material like carbon fiber (AG composites), aluminum (Sage I think?), fiberglass (look at Wolfe modified fiberglass stocks), etc. JAE chassis I think have the best inherent ability to provide highest levels of accuracy out of the box but thats a lot of weight and money (I think $1600->2000 just for this stock).

4) Finding "like new" original mil-spec (USGI) parts is getting hard these days, I suggest looking for parts that are new manufacture to original mil-spec's. This ensures good condition (no pitting or otherwise worn parts) and high quality manufacturing processes. I suggest you look at Bula (sold on Jon Wolfe website), Fulton, etc. Overall I'd say you can build a nice forged receiver M1A rifle for $1800->$2200 if you went with USGI wood stock and then if you went with an expensive aftermarket stock you'd be going up in cost from there. That being said nothing wrong with going to a Springfield Armory Loaded or NM and adding "USGI" parts from there.

Again I'm a newbie around these parts but that's just what I've picked up so far mixed with some of my personal opinions.
 

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I'm no expert but I'll give you some of my opinions to try to answer your questions.

1) I don't think you can be assured of 1MOA (5 round group) with any given M1A rifle build.... but if you built it right and you are a great shooter its definitely do-able. This is the hardest to answer in a short response so I'll just suggest you read some on the accuracy part of this forum as there is some good info there. Overall I've seen rifles on this forum that shoot between 0.5 MOA -> 3 MOA... barrel and stock seem to be huge players in accuracy.

Marine and Army programs are proven Sub MOA programs.

2) This ones easy to answer. Research the Bula M21 DMR receiver, it has a built in scope mount but also backup sights, very slick. Another option is Bula XM21 (no sights as made for an optic). That being said just buying a regular M1A/M14 receiver and you can get good scope mounts. A lot of guys have good luck on here with Sadlak and Bassett mounts (among others).

YES!!!

3) I can't really think of anything that would "degrade accuracy" on an M1A that is different from any other rifle (i.e. long term barrel degredation). I guess M1A's are different from polymer guns in that wood stocks can, over extended periods of time with a lot of taking receiver in and out of stock, compress slightly which could lead to an accuracy degradation. If the stock is compressed there is always bedding the action to the stock and from what I've seen the cost of this isn't too bad. If you want to avoid any "degradation" then you could always go with a stock of an alternate material like carbon fiber (AG composites), aluminum (Sage I think?), fiberglass (look at Wolfe modified fiberglass stocks), etc. JAE chassis I think have the best inherent ability to provide highest levels of accuracy out of the box but thats a lot of weight and money (I think $1600->2000 just for this stock).

Agreed

4) Finding "like new" original mil-spec (USGI) parts is getting hard these days, I suggest looking for parts that are new manufacture to original mil-spec's. This ensures good condition (no pitting or otherwise worn parts) and high quality manufacturing processes. I suggest you look at Bula (sold on Jon Wolfe website), Fulton, etc. Overall I'd say you can build a nice forged receiver M1A rifle for $1800->$2200 if you went with USGI wood stock and then if you went with an expensive aftermarket stock you'd be going up in cost from there. That being said nothing wrong with going to a Springfield Armory Loaded or NM and adding "USGI" parts from there.

Again, on point.

Again I'm a newbie around these parts but that's just what I've picked up so far mixed with some of my personal opinions.
See above!
 

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Just my $0.02 but it's you're decision which route you want to take.
The M14/M1A is a battle proven design that can perform, at a cost. What I'm going to say may be sacrilege, especially here, but I would consider a GAP-10 or equivalent rifle if you are wanting true DMR, or better, performance.
I have done the Sage thing. At my age and condition, 2 lower back surgeries, just carrying it back and forth from the truck to the range was a PITA. By the time you add up all the costs (stock, DCSB, bipod, etc.. to make it look right) you have turned a $1200-2500 rifle into a $2200-3200 rifle that will get 1 MOA on a good day. Notice, I didn't include the price of optics.
I love my M1As but the next new rifle I buy, in 7.62/.308, will be a GAP-10.
And no, I don't have interest in GAP. I only have an interest in the best bang for the buck.
 

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"I" think the M1a/m14 is good enough, but that's for you to decide. What do you plan to do with this rifle you dream of?

Paper punching, hunting, wall hanger? There are a lot of DMR rifles out there, Scar 17, Lmt 308, Mk11/SR-25, HK 417, Mk12 spr, and MK14 EBR. They're all going to do what you want, higher volume of fire compared to a bolt action, accurate and reliable. The Scar 17 and Lmt308 will be your most inexpensive of the lot to get what you want minus scope. Plus they will be easier to sell if you don't like it.
 

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Just my $0.02 but it's you're decision which route you want to take.
The M14/M1A is a battle proven design that can perform, at a cost. What I'm going to say may be sacrilege, especially here, but I would consider a GAP-10 or equivalent rifle if you are wanting true DMR, or better, performance.
I have done the Sage thing. At my age and condition, 2 lower back surgeries, just carrying it back and forth from the truck to the range was a PITA. By the time you add up all the costs (stock, DCSB, bipod, etc.. to make it look right) you have turned a $1200-2500 rifle into a $2200-3200 rifle that will get 1 MOA on a good day. Notice, I didn't include the price of optics.
I love my M1As but the next new rifle I buy, in 7.62/.308, will be a GAP-10.
And no, I don't have interest in GAP. I only have an interest in the best bang for the buck.
If you're looking for a GAP-10, talk to Weshowe. If you need to contact him, let me know.

Back to the OP,

If you're looking for a dedicated scope rifle, I also agree that you should use either a Bula M21, XM21 or LRB M25 receiver. I lean toward the XM21 on this one because I don't believe in wasting money on iron sights that you'll never use. However, if you must have iron sights simply for SHTF backup purposes and it makes you sleep better at night (there's nothing wrong with that), then look at the M21 or M25 receiver. The XM21 will most likely cost less since there's less cost involved in making it. The M21 and M25 require more machining steps and that will most likely offset the price, maybe by $100 or more. However, even if you decide to spend more money on a scope/irons receiver, then that's money you would have spent on another scope mount like a Bassett, Sadlak or ARMS. You'd maybe spend even more money by going that route.

But to truly help you, you must answer these questions:
-What's your budget before optics?
-How far do you want to shoot?
-What's your accuracy requirement?
-Does it matter if it's a traditional stock or can it be a modern chassis system?
-How much do you want it to weigh?
-Does it matter how long it is?
-Will you be using this for paper punching (long or short range?), hunting, service rifle competition, home defense, 3-gun, tactical rifle competition, or bugout?

Answering these questions will help us help you better.

Tony.
 

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Welcome to the land of the M14/M1A. We are prejudice in favor of the M1A rifle. It is a proven system, son of the M1 that won WWII. It can be as accurate as you are looking for and will last for the long haul but it was not designed to be a 1000 meter tack driver-it was designed to be reliable in a combat situation. A bolt gun is easier to tune and costs less in the end for that purpose. The other question to ask yourself, and be honest, are you a 1,000 meter shooter? I am not and know what I really can do, so a Scout works for me. I don't have to worry if it will go bang when I NEED it to and it will hit what I am at out to 400 meters-my limit. If you are really serious about getting an M1A for DMR work, I would suggest contacting Tony Ben, Ted Brown, Jon Wolfe, or one of the other professionals here on this forum and have them build you one-they aren't cheap to build but these guys know what they are doing and will provide you with a rifle to be proud of.
 

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The M14 can perform. Even a bedded synthetic stock can do well for DMR purposes. But these rifles are expensive. The more you want to squeeze out of the M14 the more $$$ you will spend. Other rifles can do well for less.

You buy an M14 because you want an M14. It can do just about anything. It also has a great track record.

Decide what you are willing to spend. Then go from there.
 

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Boomerpusher is on the money.

Howdy,

It all rides on your needs and abilities.

In the mid to late 70's I could hit what I aimed at with an M14 clone out to 600 yards.

This is 2017 and I could not, and would not even try, to come close.

Today, I am happy to hit the center of the black at 200 yards.

For long range I have both a heavy barrel Remington bolt rifle and a Steyr SSG - they can far out range me.

Two of my M1A's are in JAE stocks.
I can "haul" them around all day - if someone else is doing the hauling.

My Scout is better but for a self-loading .308 rifle to carry all day I would use my HK SL-7.
More difficult to use, only holds ten rounds, recoils harder, but it is much lighter.

"No one can fool us as well as we can fool ourselves."

It is best to be realistic as to what one really needs as well as what one can really do.

When one sets realistic goals, they are seldom let down.

Keep yer powder dry Buckeroo,

John
 

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The m1a rifle or m14 type rifle is very capable and accurate and can be built into a MOA capable rifle . Actually it isn't as picky or hard to keep up as some try to claim but then again it is a gas operated system so it is more complicated than a bolt gun . If I personally had to walk off into the boonies I would take a rugged bolt gun over any semi if I was in combat I would want what was issued so I would have ammo and parts .if I was picking a gun that had great history good firepower plenty of accuracy potential lots of character and was willing to put in the time effort and yes money to learn how to use it and work on it myself yea I would go with the best m14 I could afford . The m14 is like a SS chevelle it won't ever win an Indy car race but it will get you a lot of street cred.
 

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M1A suitability as a modern DMR? A definite "yes it is". Read the previous posts and determine if it - in any of its seemingly infinite variations - is for you.
 

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First let me say this. A true consistent MOA rifle is very rare no matter what action type ie. bolt, M-14, ar etc etc.

Second you really do not need a 1 MOA rifle for the DMR role. 1.5-2 MOA is good enough to get consistent hits on a person at 700-800yards. The average width of a person is 18in. 2 MOA at 800 yards is.........16 in. figure 4in target for the head. A 2 MOA rifle is capable of head shots out to 200 yards.

It a real world of shooting under stress that is plenty capable. Don't get caught up in all the internet hype of sub MOA expectations. Many rifles will shoot the occasional sub MOA group but very few will do it every time and then that is using the right ammo and the right shooter.

In conclusion yes the M-14/M1a is plenty capable of being a good reliable DMR rifle. I prefer it over the AR platform because it fits me better. Also I believe the action type is more reliable than the AR action under adverse conditions. The AR platform is easier to make more accurate but I would rather have a more reliable weapon that was accurate enough over a super accurate weapon that jammed.
 
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