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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys,
I need your knowledge again.
Intro: I'm installing a Sage stock for the first time. Everything was going fine following the instructions. Almost completed, I sit the barreled action in the stock and it don't fit.

Problem: As you'll see, the front of the receiver act as a pivot point. With the rear of receiver sitted, the rod guide block is too high, half the threaded block hole hidden from the stock hole. If I sit the rod guide block and install it's screws, the receiver heel lift .065".




That's a SAI M1A loaded 2001 and a new 2009 Sage Mod.0 5-screw cover.

Hypothesis: My SAI synthetic stock had a some finish removed under the front of the receiver. The trigger guard tension was perfect.
It makes me think my receiver is a little off-spec with the barrel pointing slightly upward.
The solution would then be to shave some material on the stock under the front of the receiver.

Question: Am I missing something?
Any other explanation?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Have you double checked the guide block to make sure it is installed correctly?
How correctly do you mean? I can sit the guide block and install it's 3 screws, no problem. See second picture.

I bet it's the receivers legs not being in spec.
Why?
On picture 1, the receiver is well sitted in front and on the hell. In this position I can install the trigger group with the perfect tension. But the barrel is to high to install the top cover and guide block screws.
 

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Wow, something's not right... I'm tending to think that the receiver face may be at an angle since that's the only thing I can think of that would cause that. Well, the other option is the Sage stock is out of whack, which I guess isn't impossible but I'd imagine not likely.

My suggestion would be to use the lifetime warranty to get a receiver that's not aiming the barrel in the wrong direction. I would never go chopping into a $700+ stock to make an out of spec part fit it... That would make that stock go to that receiver for the rest of it's life which to me is not a smart route to go.
 

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I'm not sure if this will work, but its an idea. Place the barreled action out of the stock and clamped lightly in a vise with the bottom side up. Take a string and pull it over the reciever and down the the length of the barrel so that you project the machined surface down the barrel. If you are very carefull you may be able to see an alignment issue. Also if you have a really good square you might be able to see if the face of the reciever is not perpindincular to the base. I am assuming that you do not have access to precision measuring devises.
You do have the OP rod block on facing the correct direction?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
My suggestion would be to use the lifetime warranty to get a receiver that's not aiming the barrel in the wrong direction. I would never go chopping into a $700+ stock to make an out of spec part fit it...
You're probably right. In Canada it probably means losing the rifle for a year... That's disappointing, it was a good shooter with USGI parts from the factory. But that receiver was also unable to mount an ARMS #18.

Do you think I should try to keep it's TRW bolt and HRA rod or if I should let them change it for a bolt fitted to the new receiver?

Take a string and pull it over the reciever and down the the length of the barrel so you may be able to see an alignment issue. Also if you have a really good square you might be able to see if the face of the reciever is not perpindincular to the base. You do have the OP rod block on facing the correct direction?
Red dot facing the muzzle, yes. Took me like 90 minutes to tap it in position and I'll have to take it off for SAI. GI9

I'll try your ideas with the string and the square. It would confirm our explanation and picturing this would help convincing SAI...

Thank you guys, I'll try to update you.
 

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Make sure that the op rod spring guide pin is fully seated into the slot that it is supposed to be. I have also see people install this pin incorrectly. When seating actions in stocks, we use a large soft faced mallet to literally beat them in.
 

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If you have it, try use a line laser vice the string and square. I am leaning more to the op-rod guide block as being the problem. It would be interesting to know if the vertical edges of the op-rod guide it parallel to the front face of the receiver.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Make sure that the op rod spring guide pin is fully seated into the slot that it is supposed to be.
I didn't use the roll-pin, as suggested by the Sage instructions. With the original rod guide pinned, my OProd was a little off-center on the piston. With the Sage rod guide my rod is now centered. I think the channel for the pin under the barrel was a little offset.
I still love you Springfield Armory and I wear your t-shirts!

I am leaning more to the op-rod guide block as being the problem.
Regardless of the rod guide block, I can seat the receiver front and heel and the barrel is too high so the top-cover can't close (even with tensioner fully retracted).
Whatever mallet I'll use, the front of the receiver still act as a pivot. Wether I sit the heel or the guide block. I thougt installing the trigger group and then pulling the guide block with the under screw but there's too much gap for the no-flex in the stock-barrel-receiver.
 

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To me, it looks like it's pivoting on the barrel just in front of the receiver...do you have a heavy barrel on this receiver?
Aren't heavy barrels a no-no on a Sage EBR?

Walt
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
No it's a medium barrel. It should be fine with 5-screw top cover.

Are your receivers cut like this? The gap on the left is around .077" and on the right .053".


I checked with the level, shows a little cant upward like we suspected. Not much but might be enough.



I'll show that to SAI, we'll see.
 

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Yes my recievers are cut like that. Unfortunatley they are one place and I am another. The area above the mag opening is cut at an angle and behind the "legs" it is flat.
 

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You must multiply that bubble difference by at least 7, to know how much it is off, but it looks like time for some butter, because that receiver is toast. I seriously doubt the barrel threads were done off angle. Call for a return to manufacturer number, there is nothing you can do to fix this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
You must multiply that bubble difference by at least 7, that receiver is toast. I seriously doubt the barrel threads were done off angle. Call for a return to manufacturer number, there is nothing you can do to fix this.
I called SAI, Donna Rahn is at Shot show. Good for her and so my wait starts.

So what about my USGI parts? If/when I send the rifle to Geneseo, should I ask to keep the bolt and OProd? Would a new barreled receiver be better served with new parts?

Thanks for all! BEERCHUG1
 

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Make sure that the op rod spring guide pin is fully seated into the slot that it is supposed to be. I have also see people install this pin incorrectly. When seating actions in stocks, we use a large soft faced mallet to literally beat them in.
I ran into this problem on a action that had a longer than normal roll pin in the op rod spring guide pin. the owner had dremelled out the stock for it to fit.

this is the one under the front of the receiver for the op rod spring and not the op rod guide block in the middle of the barrel.

check the roll pin that sticks out of the bottom of the op rod guide pin (view from magwell when installed) and the op rod guide pin that sticks out the side of the receiver.

good luck
 

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I ran into this problem on a action that had a longer than normal roll pin in the op rod spring guide pin. the owner had dremelled out the stock for it to fit.

this is the one under the front of the receiver for the op rod spring and not the op rod guide block in the middle of the barrel.

check the roll pin that sticks out of the bottom of the op rod guide pin (view from magwell when installed) and the op rod guide pin that sticks out the side of the receiver.

good luck
How far in should that roll pin be? I have a solid pin that's longer to make it easier to slide the connector pin in and out. I do have the shorter roll pin that I can replace it with if needed. Should the roll pin be flush with the receiver? I'll get my Sage Mod 1 Friday it looks like so I want to be prepared.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
So Donna of SAI asked that I send it for service and probably a new receiver. I'm trying to find the way to export it.

They usually want a M1A in original condition but since the original synthetic stock is in the garbage, she said to send it in the Sage stock. It might help them to understand the problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
Rifle back from SAI

I received my M1A back from SAI. It was gone 6.5 months. Considering the transit me-delear-distributor-export-SAI and the same after, I think their riflesmith did quick.

They didn't replace the receiver but forced it down. After spending about 2 months like that, I can now install the trigger group normally with proper tension if I squeeze the receiver-stock together. It takes me about 20-30 lbs of pressure to close the receiver gap. I hope it will not overstress the trigger guard legs and pin.

As a bonus they checked my barrel indexing, tuned my tirgger and changed my ejector spring.

Finally, they removed the Sage crush washer (replacing a shim kit) because it was a little too tight on the gas cylinder. They didn't put any shim so there's a big gap between my gas cylinder and the barrel shoulder. You would shim the gas cylinder right?

But afterall, the main purpose of shims is to stabilize the front band. On an EBR, maybe they're used only for the look?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
Please give me your idea about the GC shims, I'm getting excited about finishing my EBR project! :D

I searched all I could and nobody seems convinced that the shims improve anything. Some like Ted Brown and me don't see how it can help. I'll try it without shims. I'm on the way to complete the build! :)

The debate on shims usefulness on an EBR is still open...
 
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