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Discussion Starter #1
I reading the book of Mr Lee Emerson, fantastic book to learn the history of M14, and in the section about M14 NM, he said SA and TRW produced these rifles, my question is, it is really impossible to find Winchester or H&R NM rifles?
 

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It is possible to find H&R or Winchester parts on NM rifles that have been through rebuild, but otherwise, no.
 

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OK, I asked the question because I have the choice between two M14 receveirs, a TRW and a H&R, and I have already H&R parts to rebuild one, but my project was to assemble a M21... but I think I will go with the H&R one because it will be more complete.
Thank you.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
No, only between a H&R and a TRW...GI2

On the H&R there is a little circle engraved on the left at serial number, someone know what it mean?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
It means the rifle was rebuilt at a depot. It's discussed in my book.

Hi Different, thank you so much to help me.
I began to read with a big pleasure your book, it is fantastic, and I recommand it in France to M14-M1a owners, in my country M14 is an icon, but his history is not well known.
As I said I started your book, it take me a lot of time to traduce it, technicals terms are not easy, but it is a good exercise for me.
I have have saw you somewhere you talk about this circle engraved on certain M14 receivers, but this was not the part where you explain it, can you tell me more about it? Was it US depot? Or foreign countries?
And if I give you my receiver number can you tell me the year of production?
Best regards, a French fan of your job, book, website....
 

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I have have saw you somewhere you talk about this circle engraved on certain M14 receivers, but this was not the part where you explain it, can you tell me more about it?
And if I give you my receiver number can you tell me the year of production?
From M14 Rifle History and Development:

"As deemed by appropriate authority, the U. S. Army overhauled rack grade M14 rifles at depot facilities, e.g., Anniston Army Depot in October and December 1983. If a USGI M14 rifle has been through overhaul, the Army depot performing the work and the month and date it was done will be identified on the right side of the receiver under the operating rod rail, e.g., ANAD 12-83.

The engraved circle or letter O found on some M14 receiver heels means that rifles so marked went through depot level overhaul by the U. S. Marine Corps. Depot armorers at the Marine Corps Logistics Bases (then Depots of Supplies) Barstow, CA and Albany, GA marked overhauled M1 Garand rifles on the flat surface behind the rear sight with O-65, O-66, and O-67. The two digit number in the marking referred to the calendar year of the overhaul, e.g., 67 meant 1967. The practice was continued with depot overhaul of M14 rifles. M14 rifles overhauled by the U. S. Marine Corps were marked O-69 in 1969. By at least 1970, the marking was changed to a four alphanumeric character code, e.g., OB-70. The second letter in the code stood for the depot which performed the work. By similarly marking the M14 receiver heel with the letter O, the rifle would not require disassembly to identify it as an overhauled unit."

Yes, I can estimate the year of manufacture based on the receiver serial number.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Wahoo! Great!
Well it mean this receiver was on a USMC rifle?

My receiver is a H&R, and is number is 975435.
 

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Wahoo! Great!
Well it mean this receiver was on a USMC rifle?

My receiver is a H&R, and is number is 975435.
All I can say is that your rifle was rebuilt by a U. S. Marine Corps depot level facility at some point, likely in the early 1970s. Your rifle was originally built in the first half of 1963.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Fabulous!
I have all my answers, it will increase my love for this rifle.
And I will continue to read your book to perfect my knowledge, and share it with my french friends M14 owners.

Thank a lot.
 

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Other NM rifles

M14NM rifles can be found with any of the four original manufacturers receivers. Many NM rifles were built up by miltary armorers and National Guard State armorers. They were not picky about who's receivers or other parts went into a rifle. Morst were engraved with NM markings, but few if any Air Force NM rifles were marked NM.
 

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Just a side notation......

In France and I believe Germany, it is not the receiver that makes the rifle, but the barrel. Receivers can be purchased there the same as barrels can be purchased hereGI4

It makes a lot of sense as the round goes into the chamber of the barrel and not the receiver.

I wish the US had done it that way, but with our system of registering full auto, there would be no way for them to regulate them.
 

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Different,
would this have been an oddity, or perhaps a locally-built rifle?

In both 1976 and again in 1987 I was issued a Winchester NM M-14 SN # 4114 by the 5th US Army Marksmanship Training Unit (MTU) at Ft. Riley, Kansas.

I shot it all summer in 76 as a 16-year old junior's program shooter, and again in 87 as a member of the 5th Army Highpower team, later assigned to the AMU, but I retained that rifle until turn-in after Camp Perry.

There was no circle marking anywhere on the heel, and there was no annotation on the right side of the receiver, either. I suppose the question would be this... "did any of the MTUs build any of their own rifles?"

They certainly had the high quality armorers needed to do the job, so it wouldn't seem too terribly far from a possibility...
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Just a side notation......

In France and I believe Germany, it is not the receiver that makes the rifle, but the barrel. Receivers can be purchased there the same as barrels can be purchased hereGI4

It makes a lot of sense as the round goes into the chamber of the barrel and not the receiver.

I wish the US had done it that way, but with our system of registering full auto, there would be no way for them to regulate them.
My M14 H&R will be not in full auto, only semi, even if my receiver is complete...
We are authorized to own military firearms only in semi auto, in caliber 223 to 50BMG, but we are limited in quantity...7 maxi.

This is reason why we have a lot of rifles rechambered in "civilian caliber", like 7.08, 300 savage for MAS 36 or 1903, 8x60 for K98k for example.only bolt action where there is no limitation.

Our politicals says everywhere "France is the country of human right", be sure this is not true!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
M14NM rifles can be found with any of the four original manufacturers receivers. Many NM rifles were built up by miltary armorers and National Guard State armorers. They were not picky about who's receivers or other parts went into a rifle. Morst were engraved with NM markings, but few if any Air Force NM rifles were marked NM.
Very good news for me! My project is to buid a M14 NM very closed to the originals, I have all the parts to buid a H&R M14, just the bolt is a winchester one, for me it is more easy to find only a correct bolt, because here in Europe M14 parts are very very rare... But we can found some good oppurtunity sometimes, like those originals receivers, I asked this german seller where he found this parts, but no answers, just the package in my letter boxGITEN
Finaly only my barrel will be no usgi, a lothar walter with heavy contour.
 

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Different,
would this have been an oddity, or perhaps a locally-built rifle?

In both 1976 and again in 1987 I was issued a Winchester NM M-14 SN # 4114 by the 5th US Army Marksmanship Training Unit (MTU) at Ft. Riley, Kansas.

I suppose the question would be this... "did any of the MTUs build any of their own rifles?"
See post # 12 by Ted Brown in this thread.

Do you have a photograph of the receiver heel of M14 serial number 4114? M14 serial number 4114 was built by Springfield Armory (Springfield, MA) according to records supplied by Albert A. Cole, Jr. to R. Blake Stevens. Mr. Cole was an ordnance engineer at Springfield Armory. Mr. Cole managed the draftsmen who drew and updated the drawings for the M14 project. He also worked with production employees at the four M14 manufacturers in testing and evaluating design changes to the M14 rifle. After Springfield Armory closed in 1968, Mr. Cole went to work at Picatinny Arsenal and later at Rock Island Arsenal. After his years of public service, he was employed by Sturm, Ruger & Co. in designing firearms before retiring in 1988.
 

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My M14 H&R will be not in full auto, only semi, even if my receiver is complete...
We are authorized to own military firearms only in semi auto, in caliber 223 to 50BMG, but we are limited in quantity...7 maxi.

This is reason why we have a lot of rifles rechambered in "civilian caliber", like 7.08, 300 savage for MAS 36 or 1903, 8x60 for K98k for example.only bolt action where there is no limitation.

Our politicals says everywhere "France is the country of human right", be sure this is not true!!!!
We are of the same mind. Wherever these stupid laws exist they make no sense. Keep up the good fight brother.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Thank you DRX, sometime I have the sensation to be more understand here on US forums, than in my current life in France...shooters and hunters are not well seen for the majority of the population, we are pollued with socialist ideas for many years... but as you said we keep up the fight! And we are doing the maximum to practice our passion .
 
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