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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I think I understand the differences as a standard M14 is just that while a M25 receiver has a built in rail system ... but would like for somebody to post and explain in detail the differences from stocks, receivers, etc. I have 2 x LRB M25 receivers I'm building up here very soon.

Otokiak
Rankin Inlet, NU
CANADA

p.s. PICS WELCOME! Thank you fellow board members!
 

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LRB m25 receiver does not an m25 rifle make.
M21 and M25 are duty specific modified M14s. Both were modified to improve accuracy.
M21 - bedded stock, ar-tel scope, proprietary mount.
M25 - McMillan Stock, bedded. B&L scope, BPT mount, BPT piston, BPT op rod spring giide, modified gc.

Both have match mods.

Others will expand and correct me. The info is out there.

Receivers are no different between GI M14, M21, and M25.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thank you mescalito! I have the two LRB receivers I'm building up with USGI and aftermarket parts. One I'll have a heavy stainless Krieger barrel 22 inch in a wood stock, the other 18.5 LRB barrel in a McMillan folder stock. I've had the gas systems both welded, going to bed the stocks, etc. I have read alot but knew somebody would have actual info and product names of what an M21 and M25 sit in/use. Thanks again mescalito,

Otokiak
Rankin Inlet, NU
CANADA

p.s. Jersey Devil thank you ... I pity all the 4 legged creatures I'm going to hunt upon completion of these builds! HAHA! ;)
 

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LRB M25 receivers can be built into any configuration that a M14 can be built in. The only difference is the rail. It is by far the best system to use when you plan to primarily use optics. The two best choices from McMillan for the M25 are the M3A and the McMillan folding stock. Both require glass bedding. The M3A should be ordered with an adjustable cheek rest.

I built the first LRB M25 rifle for testing and evaluation. It is No. 10001. I used a Criterion 18.5 inch medium weight CBI barrel, McMillan folding stock, US Optics ST10 scope, and a Bobro bipod. it's a great combination and can't seem to miss anything within 600 meters.
 

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M25, Brookfield modified parts, Barnett heavy barrel, reemed to M118lr specs, B&L Tactical scope, mcmillan stock with Brookfield stock liner. Navy Seal configuration.

Early M21 config, clone G&H m1C mount, with M84 scope, SAK NM GI contour barrel.

Late M21 config, ART II scope, LRB Saco Lowell NM clone barrel, think its an epoxied stock.

I've since acquired an AR TEL, 2 more ART II scopes, and 1/2 dozen various Redfield accu range scopes, some of which I've perfected my green anodizing on. My wife thinks I'm crazy, destroyed the basement carpet with lye and acid, spent the last two weeks putting an engineered floor down.


 

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I didnt realize an M25 was more than just a receiver.
 

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The commercial manufacturers are intentionally trying to confuse everyone.

The USGI M21 and M25 rifles have nothing whatsoever to do with the commercial M21 and M25 rifles. The commercial rifles are not even clones or copies, they are just using the name.
 

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In "The Complete Book of U.S. Sniping" Peter R. Senich (Paladin Press, 1988), Chapter 16 "The Army M21- 900 Meter Kills", the chapter deals with the M14 accurized national match rifle used with the M84 scope, to the XM-21 with the Redfield ARTEL (aka ART-I), then to the ART-II (1st generation base with 1 thumb knob).

Basicly, the first NM M14 rifles with M84 scopes were sent to Vietnam by 1967 time period, with Army Weapons Command developing in 1966 a hinged mount with the M84 scope. Following standards set by the Infantry Board at FT Benning, the Redfield Accutrak scope was selected, with the power ring surrounded by a ballistic cam for M118 Special Ball ammunition, developed in 1964-65 by LT James Leatherwood of the Army Marksmanship Unit at Fort Benning. This is the Adjustatble Ranging Telescope (ARTEL).

These first XM-21 rifles were sent to Vietnam by 1967. By that time, a mix of AMU fabricated M14 NM rifles with M84 scopes and XM-21 rifles with ARTEL scopes were in country with the 1st and 9th Infantry Divisions.

The XM-21 with the ARTEL scope became the M21 upon standardization in 1972.

By 1981, the ART-II developed by the Leatherwood Company, was adopted to replace the ARTEL (aka ART-1). This had a separate cam from the power ring. Also, when first introduced, the ART-II mount utilized a single-thumb knob similar to the ARTEL. By the late 1980s, the ART-II utilized a 2 thumb knob mount: 1 that mated on the M14 receiver hole, the 2nd thumb knob mated one of two ways:
- a block that replaced the stripper clip guide with a hole that mated with this 2nd thumb knob
- the stripper clip guide was drilled and tapped, and mated with 2nd thumb knob

FYI: my gunsmith in Alaska (who as a CW3 was our Brigade Armament Tech, and built my NM M1A) prefers the ARTEL scope over the ART-II. He used both when a member of AMU in the 1980's, to include a tour with AMU in Lebanon with the Marines at about the time of the OCT 1983 Marine Barracks bombing in Beirut. He wouldn't tell me how many kills he has, but he did say it was "a very effective system dealing with individuals".

Basicly: the XM-21 is a NM M14 rifle utilizing the ARTEL scope. Standardized in 1972 as M21. By 1981, the ART-II scope was standardized. The M25 was developed with in the Special Forces community circa 1988. This replaced the ART-2 and ARTEL scopes and bases with either a 10x Bausch and Lomb scope or a Leupold M3A Ultra scope (like on the M24 Remington sniper rifle, standardized circa 1988-89) utilizing the ARMS #18 mount (tested by 82nd ABN DIV) or the Brookfield mount (tested by Special Forces).

Not going into further detail, but the M14 series of rifles is being replaced in the sniping/DMR role in the Army and Marines with the Knight's Armament Company M110 sniper rifle, adopted circa 2007. The Marines started phasing out the M14 DMR in 2010.

I got lucky: in 2009 in Korea, I fired the M40A4 sniper rifle and the M14 DMR with the USMC 3rd Recon Battalion (out of Okinawa) while they visited Rodriguez Range north of Camp Casey on Memorial Day 2009. The M14 DMR utilized a Brookfield-style of mount, welded to the stripper clip guide dovetail, Badger Ordnance rings, Leupold M3A scope with mildot reticle, and McMillian pistol-grip green stock (similar to M14A1 stock). Handguard solid brown fiberglass. Ammunition fired with M118 Special Ball rounds. The M40A4 utilized the (then) new Schmidt and Bender 3-12x34mm scope with mil-radian turrets with a "wicked" reticle. Both were FUN to shoot, I got 40 rounds total between the two rifles.
 

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It's true that commercial companies are just "using the name" on their M25 and M21 rifles, but if you ever saw a real GI M25 or M21 you would notice that they are both marked M14. The military was just "using the Name" as well.
 

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It's true that commercial companies are just "using the name" on their M25 and M21 rifles, but if you ever saw a real GI M25 or M21 you would notice that they are both marked M14. The military was just "using the Name" as well.
That is because the M14 rifle production ceased by 1 January 1964 by order of SecDef McNamara. Roughly 1.4 million total M14s were produced. NM, M21, M25, M14A1, M14 DMRs, etc. were made up in arms rooms from Quantico to Fort Benning to Crane to Rock Island to Anniston Army Depot and numerous 3rd Shop and Depot Maintenance rooms all over the US and around the world from receivers and parts made between 1959 and 1 January 1964.
 

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In "The Complete Book of U.S. Sniping" Peter R. Senich (Paladin Press, 1988), Chapter 16 "The Army M21- 900 Meter Kills", the chapter deals with the M14 accurized national match rifle used with the M84 scope, to the XM-21 with the Redfield ARTEL (aka ART-I), then to the ART-II (1st generation base with 1 thumb knob).

Basicly, the first NM M14 rifles with M84 scopes were sent to Vietnam by 1967 time period, with Army Weapons Command developing in 1966 a hinged mount with the M84 scope. Following standards set by the Infantry Board at FT Benning, the Redfield Accutrak scope was selected, with the power ring surrounded by a ballistic cam for M118 Special Ball ammunition, developed in 1964-65 by LT James Leatherwood of the Army Marksmanship Unit at Fort Benning. This is the Adjustatble Ranging Telescope (ARTEL).

These first XM-21 rifles were sent to Vietnam by 1967. By that time, a mix of AMU fabricated M14 NM rifles with M84 scopes and XM-21 rifles with ARTEL scopes were in country with the 1st and 9th Infantry Divisions.

The XM-21 with the ARTEL scope became the M21 upon standardization in 1972.

By 1981, the ART-II developed by the Leatherwood Company, was adopted to replace the ARTEL (aka ART-1). This had a separate cam from the power ring. Also, when first introduced, the ART-II mount utilized a single-thumb knob similar to the ARTEL. By the late 1980s, the ART-II utilized a 2 thumb knob mount: 1 that mated on the M14 receiver hole, the 2nd thumb knob mated one of two ways:
- a block that replaced the stripper clip guide with a hole that mated with this 2nd thumb knob
- the stripper clip guide was drilled and tapped, and mated with 2nd thumb knob

FYI: my gunsmith in Alaska (who as a CW3 was our Brigade Armament Tech, and built my NM M1A) prefers the ARTEL scope over the ART-II. He used both when a member of AMU in the 1980's, to include a tour with AMU in Lebanon with the Marines at about the time of the OCT 1983 Marine Barracks bombing in Beirut. He wouldn't tell me how many kills he has, but he did say it was "a very effective system dealing with individuals".

Basicly: the XM-21 is a NM M14 rifle utilizing the ARTEL scope. Standardized in 1972 as M21. By 1981, the ART-II scope was standardized. The M25 was developed with in the Special Forces community circa 1988. This replaced the ART-2 and ARTEL scopes and bases with either a 10x Bausch and Lomb scope or a Leupold M3A Ultra scope (like on the M24 Remington sniper rifle, standardized circa 1988-89) utilizing the ARMS #18 mount (tested by 82nd ABN DIV) or the Brookfield mount (tested by Special Forces).

Not going into further detail, but the M14 series of rifles is being replaced in the sniping/DMR role in the Army and Marines with the Knight's Armament Company M110 sniper rifle, adopted circa 2007. The Marines started phasing out the M14 DMR in 2010.

I got lucky: in 2009 in Korea, I fired the M40A4 sniper rifle and the M14 DMR with the USMC 3rd Recon Battalion (out of Okinawa) while they visited Rodriguez Range north of Camp Casey on Memorial Day 2009. The M14 DMR utilized a Brookfield-style of mount, welded to the stripper clip guide dovetail, Badger Ordnance rings, Leupold M3A scope with mildot reticle, and McMillian pistol-grip green stock (similar to M14A1 stock). Handguard solid brown fiberglass. Ammunition fired with M118 Special Ball rounds. The M40A4 utilized the (then) new Schmidt and Bender 3-12x34mm scope with mil-radian turrets with a "wicked" reticle. Both were FUN to shoot, I got 40 rounds total between the two rifles.
I have an AWC mount/m84. I never got the what they mean when they say "hinged mount".. Nothing is hinged. It basically all operates like an M1C.
 

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Can you please tell me what book that is?
Sure,,Blake Stevens U.S. Rifle M14 from John Garand to the M21.
I'm sure all the Senich M14 books prolly have similar pics as well. I seem to remember one pic that shows what looks very much like the G&H (M1C) mount that was modified to swing as well,,just not in this book. If I find that pic I'll post as well.
 
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