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· Super Moderator
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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Thanks Gus for that additional and critical information. And no worries, this thread will be here when you get back GI7 . I completly overlooked Camp Perry. I guess I wouldn't have if I were going. It is a goal of mine some day though.

I plan for this thread to be an evolving one as input is received. Ted has given me some info to chew on as well.
 

· "Death From Above"
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Tony again I have to thank you for what I am sure took a great deal of time and effort to write and edit. This and your other tutorials are most informative and a true testament of your dedication not only our beloved M14 but testament to your dedication to the forum and your fellow members. You sir are a great asset to The Firingline and I for one am glad you are willing to go out on the limb so to speak and share your experiences. I intend to print this tutorial with the hopes that one day I will be daring enought to attempt a bedding job on my own. You did an outstanding job and it is well put together. I always felt that I would screw it up and wind sending the mess off to smith afterall. I wil probably read this post over a few times just to digest the quantity of information you have provided. Thanks T Hawk made the right move when he made you a Mod.
 

· NSRA
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Tony from what I have seen and read about your bedding project, you were a gun plummer in a previous life and , don't deny it. It's clear, concise and the pictures are a great training aid, to assist others in there project. Yes, Sir you are Mod Material.
 

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Wow! That must have taken a while to type up.

I don't know too much about bedding, but I do have a suggestion. You stated:

"For glass bedding to be optimized, there needs to be a certain amount of draw pressure added to the front band lip/stock ferrule fit. What is draw pressure, you ask? Draw pressure is the amount of upward force that the lip of the front band exerts on the very bottom of the stock ferrule. This pressure will stabilize the barrel as it shoots and help the barrel return to the exact spot after firing.

For the appropriate draw pressure to be achieved and maintained, the front band must be securely held in place by the gas cylinder. This can be measured by identifying the location of the gas lock where it begins to snug up on the gas cylinder. The ideal position for it to reach snugness at is about the 4:30 to 5 o’clock position as looking from muzzle to butt stock. From there, you should need a gas cylinder lock wrench to fully tighten it to the 6 o’clock position."

The draw pressure is not created by and does not get consistency from the gas cylinder assembly. Even on non-unitized or shimmed rifles, the draw pressure will be constant.
Gas cylinder to gas hole alignment, gas cylinder lock tightness, and unitizing should be talked about seperately from down pressure. People get an understanding that they relate, and by unitizing or shimming the gas cylinder they will get more down pressure.

Other than that, it looks pretty good GI7
Dustin
 

· Super Moderator
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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Wow! That must have taken a while to type up......

The draw pressure is not created by and does not get consistency from the gas cylinder assembly. Even on non-unitized or shimmed rifles, the draw pressure will be constant.
Gas cylinder to gas hole alignment, gas cylinder lock tightness, and unitizing should be talked about seperately from down pressure. People get an understanding that they relate, and by unitizing or shimming the gas cylinder they will get more down pressure.

Other than that, it looks pretty good GI7
Dustin

Thanks for the feedback. It took me about 6 to 8 weeks to type up and months of researching and clarifying old posts and data collection. I do agree with your comments on that statement. I will tgry to re-word that statement a little better. I was trying to get the point across that if you are going through the trouble of glass bedding, the gas system should be tight for consistency.

I'll see what I can come up with.
 

· MGySgt USMC (ret)
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M14/M1A Glass bedding tutorial and additional info **Updated 08/03/09**

Folks, allow me to begin by saying I'm not convinced a single torque screw rifle is better and can wind up worse than having a rear lug with no torque screw. Having said that, I've also gotten questions about how to do a pillar bedding job with a single torque screw. If you do it this way, you will avoid many of the pitfalls common to using a single torque screw.

First, you must bed the whole upper receiver and rear lug together at the same time (or at least skim glass both together after you glass them separately and that's with the receiver and lug glass areas loose enough they will balance after skim glassing). This balances the whole upper glass job so you don't wind up putting unequal stress either on the receiver or rear lug. Unequal tension on the receiver and rear lug will definitely screw up the possible accuracy of this system.

We don't care what the pillar going through the stock will look like as no one is every going to see it unless you saw the stock in half. I submit you want as large of a pillar as you can get and don't mind if it isn't perfectly the same shape all the way through the stock.

After I have inlet the front of the receiver and the rear lug, I drill from BOTH the top and the bottom of the stock to get room for the pillar for the torque screw. What I do is mark the position of the torque screw hole with masking tape on the side of the stock. That allows me to better align the drill bits to bore into the stock from both the bottom and top of the stock. I then lay the largest size drill bit I can get inside the inlet for the rear of the trigger housing on the outside of the stock and going down towards the bedding area for the rear of the trigger housing. That gives me a good idea on where to begin drilling from the bottom and the angle that has to be drilled. I start with a 1/4" drill bit from both the top and the bottom and only drill a little more than half way into the stock. from either the top or bottom. As you go up in sizes of drill bits, the holes from the bottom of the stock will eventually break through into the top. When that happens, I ONLY drill from the bottom from that point on until I drill through to the top with a 1/2" bit.

You can use a drill as large as close to 5/8" from the bottom, but you risk damaging the wood on the sides of the stock around the inlet for the rear of the trigger housing. Ask me how I know......Grin. So instead of using that large of a drill bit, I carefully open the hole to the max width of the channel inlet for the rear of the trigger guard by using a dremel cutter and/or a round rasp. You need this clearance for the escutcheon that goes around the head of the screw. I prefer to leave the forward 1/8" of wood on the inlet for the rear of the trigger housing more as a guide as anything else, but don't care if I cut out all the rest of the wood going back from there inside the inlet. I will fill the hole in with glass and that's a lot more stable and stronger than the wood around it.

The next step is to position the receiver in the stock where it will go when glass bedded. Turn the stock upside down and see if the torque screw and escutcheon will go in without binding. Check with just the torque screw first. If the screw binds, you have to open the hole a bit larger as we want fiberglass all around the screw. You don't need to leave a huge space around the escutcheon, but it also can not bind.

When you clay up the receiver, I strongly suggest you take a Q tip dipped in mold release and thoroughly coat the threaded hole in the rear lug for the torque screw. Then PACK clay into the hole. Then take the screw and turn it in about four turns. Then remove the screw and coat the shorter hole with mold release again. This allows you to "find" the hole to begin screwing the torque screw down when you bed it.

Now, if you have ever glass bedded a rifle and thought it was messy, wait until you try it with a single or double torque screw gun. This is one time you want to mix up PLENTY of extra glass bedding material. I would suggest the first time you do it, whatever the amount you figure you need - add half again as much. Otherwise, you may well wind up with not enough glass to do it properly. As you do more of them, you will get to the point you can mix up just enough bedding material with only a little left over.

When I pack the glass in, the first thing I do is fill that hole for the torque screw. You know you have enough when you force glass from either the top or bottom of the stock and you see it pushed through the hole on the other end. Then pack glass in the rest of the stock and on the receiver. Then turn the stock upside down and align and push the stock down onto the barreled receiver. The glass is going to squoosh through the hole for the torque screw and that's GOOD because it tells you that you have enough glass in the hole. Remove the excess glass with a putty knife from the bottom. Take the screw and escutcheon and screw them in down to the point the top of the escutcheon and screw goes in to the point it is even with or preferably a bit further down (because the stock is upside down) than the old bedding was for the rear of the trigger housing. If we consider the stock as being right side up, the escutheon and torque screw will go up inside the stock a bit further than the original bedding surface for the rear of the trigger housing. (IOW, we don't want the escutcheon or head of the torque screw keeping the rear of the trigger housing too far down where it would cause the hammer hooks not to engage properly.) More glass is going to SQUOOSH up as you get the screw and escutheon screwed in place and that is also a GOOD thing as it shows you won't have voids in the pillar around the screw. Then you can spread that excess glass around to fill in the rest of the bedding for the rear of the trigger housing. It's better to leave too much than too little as we also want to see it SQUOOSH out when we lock the trigger guard down on the trigger housing. We are NOT concerned with how much tension there will be on the triggerguard. You do that in a separate bedding operation after the glass hardens around the torque screw and escutcheon.

Only after clamping down the trigger housing do we turn the rifle right side up and pack more glass into voids or clean off where the glass has SQUOOSHED out around the receiver.

In case you didn't know, SQUOOSH is a techical term. Grin.
 

· MGySgt USMC (ret)
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I forgot to mention I usually cut the holes for the pillars under the front pads of the trigger housing and fill them with glass and allow them to harden before I glass the rest of the top of the receiver. It's easier to make the holes before you glass the top.

However, I don't allow the bedding material to protrude from the bottom of the stock and cause more pressure by the triggerguard when clamping the receiver in place. I set up the tension on the triggerguard by glass bedding the trigger housing after the rest of the rifle is finished.
 

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a bedding question ?

Here is kind of a noobie question for Mr. Fisher, Mr. Lappino and Tonyben. I recently acquired an oversize stock that has been bedded.

What needs to be done to fit another action to this stock?
Remove the old bedding, or can I work this bedding by trimming / sanding / dremeling/ filing it to accept another action?

Oh, I guess that' s two questions GI2
 

· Super Moderator
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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
I would say technically it needs a skim bedding, but since it is new to you, you might as well start over from the beginning to make sure it's done right. It's kind of like doing a car restoration project from a guy you purchased it from. He says this and that were done, but you have to go back and see for yourself.

Doing a skim bedding job is almost as lengthy as doing a bedding job from scratch.
 

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Great Job.

The only things I could add is that I have read that you want 11 lbs of pressure on the front band and ferrule. With .010 to .015 thousands clearance between the ferrule and front band. The next thing that someone needs to cover is how you treat the stock before glass bedding. It takes an autoclave capable of getting 2 to 3 neg atmospheres and a temp of 350 degrees, and injecting some epoxy around the stock and letting it cure for 12 hours. This will make your stock much stiffer and the weather won't bother it. I do my bedding basically the way Ted does his, just a little different. There are other methods depending on the type of setup you want but that is another story. I hope this helps.
 

· Super Moderator
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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Any contribution helps. That's what this forum is about. GI7 Thanks for your additions.

I will also be working on fixing the picture links in the near future as well as making this thread downloadable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
Please do keep us updated and don't be afraid to post mistakes and methods. We can only learn from them. Jaildog is doing a bedding job as well. I am really eager to see his pics of a rear lugged pillar job.
 
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