M14 hand loads, what’s the proper ejection pattern?

660 Views 17 Replies 5 Participants Last post by Phil14, 5 d ago

Phil14

Discussion Starter · 7 d ago

Had been tinkering with my Nammo (Nato) brass and 170gr Lapua lock base loads. Finally got a chance to run the gamut yesterday. I’ll give you the findings and y’all tell me which is right? Powder/primer is AA2520-CCi 34

40.0gr- smooth function, seemingly anemic, weak-ish ejection.
41.0gr- smooth function, good 1:30-2:00 ejection
41.5gr- recoil still seems lower than standard M80, good 2:00 ejection
42.0gr- feels like m80ish recoil. Still 2:00 ejection
42.5gr- feels just like M80, maybe a bit on the strong side. 2:00-2:30 ejection
42.7gr.- feels like FGMM, strong 3:00 ejection
43.0gr.- stout recoil, strong 3:00-3:30 ejection, started to see that little “bolt face ring” in the case base on the last shot, so I stopped.

None of the loads showed and primer issues, all functioned the gun perfectly and I did not chronograph as all the loads were accurate enough to shoot the small plates (4”) at combat ranges and open irons. So I’m going for simply the most solid and safe load for the gun.

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

Phil14

Discussion Starter · #2 · 7 d ago

I should add that I’m running a Tubbs spring set with the extra power recoil spring so that may be what is keeping my ejections somewhat more at a forward angle than other springs as the bolt unlock may be slightly delayed. But I don’t wanna change the spring because the rifle runs so darn smooth!

nf1e

· #3 · 7 d ago

If it kicks the brass out of the rifle don't fret the small stuff. Direction of ejection has many varialbles.

Reactions: 5

Phil14

Discussion Starter · #4 · 7 d ago

nf1e said:
If it kicks the brass out of the rifle don't fret the small stuff. Direction of ejection has many varialbles.

So am I going the lowest possible with good strong ejection (41.5) Or should I run it on the higher end before ejection and recoil changes noticeably (42.5)?

KurtC

· #5 · 7 d ago

Most folks that tinker with handloads are more concerned with the target, than the ejection pattern.

If the cases are going to the 1-2 o'clock position, the oprod knuckle is knocking them forward, as Garand intended.

If they are going to the 3-4 o'clock position, the ejector is tossing them clear before the oprod comes forward. This is often desirable when using a low scope mount, for reliability.

Reactions: 5

nf1e

· #6 · 7 d ago

Work you loads for accuracy and consistency on target to heck with ejection pattern.

Reactions: 5

Sorry Dude

· #7 · 7 d ago

Phil14 said:
So am I going the lowest possible with good strong ejection (41.5) Or should I run it on the higher end before ejection and recoil changes noticeably (42.5)?

Posts 5&6 pretty much nail it

Phil14

Discussion Starter · #8 · 7 d ago

nf1e said:
Work you loads for accuracy and consistency on target to heck with ejection pattern.

Well the 42.5, 42.7 and 43.0 gr loads were definitely more consistently accurate with the 42.7 probably being the cream of the crop. I guess I was just trying to make sure I wasn’t unnecessarily beating on the rifle. I will probably go with the 42.7gr as zero pressure signs were present and it still leaves me a little “comfort room”. It also had good 3:00 ejection for my ARMS 18 mount and perfect feeding and cycling. I like the performance and consistency of these 170gr lock base bullets (all the ones I checked were within 1/10th of an gr. Of 170) and will probably settle on these loaded in nato brass from here on out. I know luck is mixed with AA2520 but it performed well for me behind these bullets.

Reactions: 1

RAMMAC

· #9 · 7 d ago

Just for information, the hotter load will reach max pressure sooner. The difference between it and the lighter loads is small, but it does mean that the lighter powder charge will cause the max pressure to happen further down the barrel and beyond the case mouth. The 43gr load will produce max pressure at a better spot in the chamber, where the profile of the barrel is larger and stronger and closer to where the base of the seated bullet is. Ballistically that's preferable to any other max pressure position.

If it were me, I'd use the larger powder charge. In fact, I'd probably try loads as high as 45gr and see what produces the best groups. On the other hand, if all you are interested in is a reliable load that holds combat accuracy, then I would go with no less than 43gr.

Reactions: 1

Phil14

Discussion Starter · #10 · 7 d ago

RAMMAC said:
Just for information, the hotter load will reach max pressure sooner. The difference between it and the lighter loads is small, but it does mean that the lighter powder charge will cause the max pressure to happen further down the barrel and beyond the case mouth. The 43gr load will produce max pressure at a better spot in the chamber, where the profile of the barrel is larger and stronger and closer to where the base of the seated bullet is. Ballistically that's preferable to any other max pressure position.

If it were me, I'd use the larger powder charge. In fact, I'd probably try loads as high as 45gr and see what produces the best groups. On the other hand, if all you are interested in is a reliable load that holds combat accuracy, then I would go with no less than 43gr.

That’s basically what I was looking for. Not a hot rod load, but something that’s a good all around general defense load. I will probably run around that 43.0 mark. 45.0 is way over book for a 170, no? Ramshot’s email shows a max of 43.5 for a 168, which I don’t see a big difference between 168-170. But I would be willing to try BLC-2 also to see if I gain any accuracy/velocity without spiking pressure. I really liked the performance of the 170gr lock base with 42.7 and 43.0 gr. I just thought I saw a ring on the case base on the last round of 43.0 which is why I stopped.

RAMMAC

· #11 · 7 d ago

Phil14 said:
That’s basically what I was looking for. Not a hot rod load, but something that’s a good all around general defense load. I will probably run around that 43.0 mark. 45.0 is way over book for a 170, no? Ramshot’s email shows a max of 43.5 for a 168, which I don’t see a big difference between 168-170. But I would be willing to try BLC-2 also to see if I gain any accuracy/velocity without spiking pressure. I really liked the performance of the 170gr lock base with 42.7 and 43.0 gr. I just thought I saw a ring on the case base on the last round of 43.0 which is why I stopped.

Ramshot's email? What are you referring to? Are you talking about Western's reloading information?

If that's what you are talking about I'm not familiar with the information you are looking at and when you start talking about reloading specifics then you need to be very precise about the loads. Depending on what reloading source you use, you can find powder charges from 33 grains up to 48 grains of AA 2520 under a 168 grain bullet. My favorite source of data comes from Hornady since they actually have a reloading section based on testing loads in a M1A rifle. They show a max of 41 grains under a 168 grain Hornady bullet. On the other hand, Hodgdon (the people that make AA 2520) recommends a maximum of 45.5 grains of AA 2520 under a 168 grain Nosler E-Tip bullet (according to their online info).

Bullet shape and case volume has a lot to do with pressures, so you will always see differences between manufacturers because they use different components, different lots of powder, and different test setups.

I can only say that based on your expectations, I'd stick with that 43gr load.

See less See more

Reactions: 1

Phil14

Discussion Starter · #12 · 7 d ago

RAMMAC said:
Ramshot's email? What are you referring to? Are you talking about Western's reloading information?

If that's what you are talking about I'm not familiar with the information you are looking at and when you start talking about reloading specifics then you need to be very precise about the loads. Depending on what reloading source you use, you can find powder charges from 33 grains up to 48 grains of AA 2520 under a 168 grain bullet. My favorite source of data comes from Hornady since they actually have a reloading section based on testing loads in a M1A rifle. They show a max of 41 grains under a 168 grain Hornady bullet. On the other hand, Hodgdon (the people that make AA 2520) recommends a maximum of 45.5 grains of AA 2520 under a 168 grain Nosler E-Tip bullet (according to their online info). View attachment 516625

Bullet shape and case volume has a lot to do with pressures, so you will always see differences between manufacturers because they use different components, different lots of powder, and different test setups.

I can only say that based on your expectations, I'd stick with that 43gr load.

I’ll try to post wester powders Service Rifle data. It was the most updated “at the time”. It has to be somewhat old though as they are still showing IWI cases. I’ve found most NATO cases to be close (I have IWI, Hirtenberger, Radway, MEN, LC, Nammo, and Norma available and they seem pretty close in capacity) and the 170 lock base is super close length and weight wise to a 167 scenar and hornaday 168 bthp. So Western Powders is showing 39.2gr min under a 168 bthp to produce 2328fps and 43.5gr max to produce 2646fps and 50,500 CUP.

Phil14

Discussion Starter · #13 · 7 d ago

See less See more

Phil14

Discussion Starter · #14 · 6 d ago

This is a repost from another sight, but this seems REALLY low, someone have the updated info? It’s supposedly the Hornady data.

See less See more

Phil14

Discussion Starter · #15 · 6 d ago

Rammac, need someone with a little more experience to look at this. As far as I’m concerned, it looks good. This was the primer/case base at 43.0

See less See more

RAMMAC

· #16 · 6 d ago

I don't see anything that indicates high pressure. When looking at the primer I get concerned when the primer cup edge becomes flat with a sharp edge rather than a small round radius.

Reactions: 2

KurtC

· #17 · 6 d ago

Those are fine. Even flattened primers are fine, as long as there is still a groove around them.

When there is no groove, as RAMMAC mentioned, you have gone too far.

Reactions: 1

Phil14

Discussion Starter · #18 · 5 d ago

It’s even more difficult to tell with these cases because the primer pockets on these Nammo cases are extremely tight and squared at the edges from the factory. I destroyed enough good primers priming these 50 cases, that I am uses my RCBS primer pocket swage on the other 350.

Reactions: 1

1 - 18 of 18 Posts