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Discussion Starter #1
I was wondering what the experts here think about this.


If you bought an m1a springfield registered full auto machine gun for say 15 or 20 thousand dollars, would you risk shooting it in full auto mode? I just keep thinking about those pictures I've seen where the rifle got a slam fire and the cast receiver is broken to ****. If that happened to a registered receiver, the gun would be a 20 thousand dollar set of paper weights. Not good. I would be afraid to shoot it personally. Are my concerns valid?
 

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15K to 20K I would shoot it occasionally. That is about twice the cost of building a precision M14 type, which I do prefer. The cost of ammo would be the killer for me. Don't think I would be terribly concerned with the receiver breaking as long as decent ammo was used.
 

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I think someone is feeding you misinformation.

Slam fires alone will not damage the receiver, forged or cast. It simply means the rifle fired when the bolt closed, instead of waiting for the hammer to fall. While holding the trigger back on full auto, you won't even notice if the cartridges are hammer fired or slam fired.

An OOB, Out Of Battery detonation (also known as a Kaboom in the Glock world), is what damages firearms. The cartridge fires before the breech locks, allowing the gasses to expand rearward into the weapon and towards the shooter. This usually damages at least some of the firearm. An OOB with a factory built and properly maintained M14/M1A, shooting quality factory ammunition, is as rare as hens teeth. I do not know if SAI's Lifetime Warranty covers the full auto rifles.

Please post the pictures of these broken receivers.
 

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I happen to own a full-auto SAI. I shoot it full auto on occasion, but admittedly not very often. I think heat is the biggest enemy. I never do a full mag dump, and let it cool before rattling off more rounds. I have a couple of other full-autos, so I merely rotate between guns in order to let them cool. And I use good ammo. (Are full-auto SAIs going for $15-20 thousand?) As I recall, there were only 150 or so original ones made--- and in further deep thought-didn't SAI send them off somewhere else for the actual conversion?
KurtC nailed it.
 

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"Not for nothin but why buy it if you’re not going to shoot it in full auto? "

My point exactly.


R/s, Hiller.........
 

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Discussion Starter #7
"
I think someone is feeding you misinformation.

Slam fires alone will not damage the receiver, forged or cast. It simply means the rifle fired when the bolt closed, instead of waiting for the hammer to fall. While holding the trigger back on full auto, you won't even notice if the cartridges are hammer fired or slam fired.

An OOB, Out Of Battery detonation (also known as a Kaboom in the Glock world), is what damages firearms. The cartridge fires before the breech locks, allowing the gasses to expand rearward into the weapon and towards the shooter. This usually damages at least some of the firearm. An OOB with a factory built and properly maintained M14/M1A, shooting quality factory ammunition, is as rare as hens teeth. I do not know if SAI's Lifetime Warranty covers the full auto rifles.

Please post the pictures of these broken receivers. "


Sorry, I meant out of battery when talking about destroyed m1a receivers.


R/s, Hiller.................
 

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Discussion Starter #8
"15K to 20K I would shoot it occasionally. That is about twice the cost of building a precision M14 type, which I do prefer. The cost of ammo would be the killer for me. Don't think I would be terribly concerned with the receiver breaking as long as decent ammo was used. "


I know what you mean, it's unlikely. But all it would take is one round and BOOM you're S.O.L.
 

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"An OOB, Out Of Battery detonation (also known as a Kaboom in the Glock world), is what damages firearms. The cartridge fires before the breech locks, allowing the gasses to expand rearward into the weapon and towards the shooter. This usually damages at least some of the firearm. An OOB with a factory built and properly maintained M14/M1A, shooting quality factory ammunition, is as rare as hens teeth. I do not know if SAI's Lifetime Warranty covers the full auto rifles. "



I don't think it matter if springfield warranties full auto or not. The ATF isn't going to allow springfield to register a new machinegun receiver in 2020.



R/s, Hiller........................
 

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I'm not up on the latest ATF rules, but they may allow SAI to destroy the old receiver and put the same serial number on the new one. Not sure on that one.

OOB detonations are extremely rare with the M14 pattern rifle. They are not specific to either semi or full auto. When one does occur, it is usually difficult to diagnose. The actual cause usually disappears in the mishap. It is hard to tell if the rifle damage, such as a sheared bolt lug or broken extractor, was the cause or the result. The rifle manufacturer will blame the ammunition. The ammunition company will blame the rifle. The shooter/handloader blames everyone but himself.

If you use high quality ammunition and inspect your rifle for wear or damage regularly, you are more likely to get hit by lightning than have an OOB.
 

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I have two real M14's, a TRW and a H&R. Bought them a little over twenty years ago for right around $5000 each. I take them out at least once a month and put about 100 rounds through each both in semi and full automatic fire. Now I don't use the cheapest steel case ammunition when I shoot them. I only use good quality commercially made NATO spec ammunition and no reloads. Are you afraid to take your $30,000 automobile out on the road where any John, Harry or Susan can turn it into a pile of scrap metal in the blink of an eye or where Mother Nature can put more dimples in it than there are on a golf ball? If the rifle is in serviceable condition, well maintained, you are using quality ammunition and you don't do anything foolish I do not see any problems shooting it.
 

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"An OOB, Out Of Battery detonation (also known as a Kaboom in the Glock world), is what damages firearms. The cartridge fires before the breech locks, allowing the gasses to expand rearward into the weapon and towards the shooter. This usually damages at least some of the firearm. An OOB with a factory built and properly maintained M14/M1A, shooting quality factory ammunition, is as rare as hens teeth. I do not know if SAI's Lifetime Warranty covers the full auto rifles. "



I don't think it matter if springfield warranties full auto or not. The ATF isn't going to allow springfield to register a new machinegun receiver in 2020.



R/s, Hiller........................

My thought is that if it is going to explode whether it's running fa or not is of little consequence.
 

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My thought is that if it is going to explode whether it's running fa or not is of little consequence.
My thought is, whatever malfunction you have, the likelihood is per round, I would think, and mostly a function of whether the rifle is working properly, as far as the firing pin moving freely, not protruding excessively, and the tail of it meeting that safety part on the receiver that is supposed to prevent the pin from fully smacking until the bolt is closed.

There is a lot of thought put into the overall design of the rifle, even if it looks on the surface to be a very simple thing. It is simple, in that there's not a whole lot of parts involved, which makes the design even more genius, in that so much of it is simply how things are shaped, which in itself explains why these simple parts are so expensive to make.

But if it's shaped correctly, and the materials are right, things are checked time to time with minimal maintenance, if any of mine had a full auto feature, I sure wouldn't mind an occasional burst on the fourth of July.

As far as the receiver being cast, while a forged receiver may be stronger, it is my understanding that when things do blow up, it is rarely the receiver itself that was the point of failure, and in strength of the receiver, the geometry and heat treating is more important than cast versus forged. It could be said that IF all else is equal, a blown up forged receiver may in some circumstances blow up a little less which may be of some safety value, but blowing up is never safe, and always terminal to the receiver, is my guess.
 

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We fired a lot of Full auto M14 action when I was in the service. Heat is definitely an issue. Never heard of OOB problems in the NAV, or had the Gunners mates and Other specialists mention any issues. Good ammo, with correctly designed primers will be the best insurance. I did have an issue once doing a training demo with US property M16- closed the bolt using the bolt release to load the rifle, and had the rifle fire. Safety on, finger off trigger, muzzle pointed safely into the berm. Even on Video. Root cause determined the soft primer ammo ( FED red box) fired as the firing pin struck the primer on momentum. Personally I would shoot a transferable M14, but not make an LMG out of it. I have an Armalite AR-10 select fire rifle, and it suffers from the same issues. Heat, and light weight.....
 

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Provided you inspect your rifle before and after shooting to look for damaged or undo wear, and use quality ammunition, the chances of a catastrophic failure are very, very small.

There is a chance an airplane could fall on your house and kill you, but do you let that govern how you live your life? The odds are about the same.
 

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If you actually did shell out $20k for full auto, you are doing it for a reason.

1. For an investment thinking the price will go up. In which case don’t shoot it.
2. You got money, don’t care about the rifle as an investment. In which case shoot it.

Nobody shells out $20k for a rifle without a reason. Let’s your reason to buy dictate your action.
 

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I never knew a select fire SAI even existed as a factory produced SAI product. When Tim Strait interviewed his long time friend Elmer Balance awhile back Elmer told him he never machined select fire anything and in that interview made no reference to SAI doing so although the specific question related to SAI didn't come up. Anyone know in what time frame these were produced and offered? Original price? And cast receivers?? These seem as elusive as TRW magazines. I don't remember Lee Emerson addressing this in M14 History and Development unless I straight up missed it.

Add/edit: Just checked GB 874800050 and read "...by Rock Island Arsenal...". Now sitting at $17025.00 well short the buy now and whatever the reserve is with 32 hrs. left. Was there an affiliation between SAI and RIA for these? Guess I should know, but don't. For the deep pocketed this seller also has a nice Thompson/Auto Ord, also short money, that ends in 8 hrs.
 

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I've fired a bunch of rounds out of government M14's in FA without problems (except for a sore shoulder). Some of my customers have FA M1A rifles and I've test fired those without any problems. The M1A FA rifles were converted by Reese Surplus Inc. prior to the Federal restrictions on selling new FA weapons. Many more were converted by other companies. Reese Surplus was a separate business operated by the same family that owns Springfield Armory Inc.
 
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