m14 armorer's classes
1 - 20 of 40 Posts
Joined
·
7,047 Posts
The SUPERB folks at the Colorado School of Trades in Denver, CO asked me about teaching an M14 course there the last two times we taught the Armalite Police Armorers' Course there in the Spring and Fall of last year. The last time I did it was last fall. I had two problems with doing it then. The first was I was waiting to get my left eye operated on for a detached retina. I couldn't help teach the Armalite Course this Spring because my eye had gotten worse enough I couldn't do it. Since the operation in June, my eye is finally doing enough better I am back working rifles and can look forward to teaching again.
The second problem is a little more difficult. I taught a one week course on NM conditioning the M14 rifle at Rochester Institute of Technology for the NRA Gunsmithing Course back in the mid 80's. I BARELY got through the whole rifle while teaching how to do it and the students had no time to work on their own guns. When I was the Instructor of OJT's at the RTE Shop at Quantico, I took about three to three and a half weeks (five instruction days a week) to teach folks the NM M14 AND they built three rifles during that time. If there is anywhere in the country that would be superb for teaching a glass bedding course or other courses on the M14 - it would be at the Colorado School of Trades. They have enough benches and vises we could teach the course there. Of course, we would also have access to most any machinery we would possibly require there as well. I told the Head of the School that I wanted to come there as a student back in the early 70's when I graduated High School, but there was no way I could afford it back then. He told me he had been there 28 years, but even he did not go back quite that far. GRIN.
The folks at the Colorado School of Trades told me I could do a class on just glass bedding the rifle with the students or whatever/however I wanted to teach the course and left it open as to how many days it would take. Since I taught the five day class back in the 80's, I have only taught two courses on the M14 and that was with REAL M14's for Law Enforcement personnel. Those classes were basically standard Armorer's courses of what would have been 3rd Echelon Work in the military, but did not include barreling and of course did not include glass bedding. Those were two day courses though not quite two full days.
There is also the problem of logistics in teaching such a class because I would have to ship my tool box, tools, rifle or rifles, stocks and parts out ahead of time because Colorado is just too far for me to drive and bring all that stuff with me. The students would also have to have a number of tools as only so many students could borrow my tools. I am also playing catch up on work that has come in and that I was not able to do because of my eye.
Bottom line is I am back to working out the details to teach such a class, but doubt we could do it before the spring or summer of next year. Heck, I still have to figure out how to teach enough stuff in a short time that it would be beneficial for a student to come to the class.
There is USUALLY the problem of getting enough students to teach such a class and pay transportation costs, food and motel costs and the teacher's salary. That would most likely not be a problem at the Colorado School of Trades because there are enough students already going there that the minimum required number of students might/would be available.
Bottom line is that while I don't have the details worked out yet, I hope to do something at the Colorado School of Trades.
The second problem is a little more difficult. I taught a one week course on NM conditioning the M14 rifle at Rochester Institute of Technology for the NRA Gunsmithing Course back in the mid 80's. I BARELY got through the whole rifle while teaching how to do it and the students had no time to work on their own guns. When I was the Instructor of OJT's at the RTE Shop at Quantico, I took about three to three and a half weeks (five instruction days a week) to teach folks the NM M14 AND they built three rifles during that time. If there is anywhere in the country that would be superb for teaching a glass bedding course or other courses on the M14 - it would be at the Colorado School of Trades. They have enough benches and vises we could teach the course there. Of course, we would also have access to most any machinery we would possibly require there as well. I told the Head of the School that I wanted to come there as a student back in the early 70's when I graduated High School, but there was no way I could afford it back then. He told me he had been there 28 years, but even he did not go back quite that far. GRIN.
The folks at the Colorado School of Trades told me I could do a class on just glass bedding the rifle with the students or whatever/however I wanted to teach the course and left it open as to how many days it would take. Since I taught the five day class back in the 80's, I have only taught two courses on the M14 and that was with REAL M14's for Law Enforcement personnel. Those classes were basically standard Armorer's courses of what would have been 3rd Echelon Work in the military, but did not include barreling and of course did not include glass bedding. Those were two day courses though not quite two full days.
There is also the problem of logistics in teaching such a class because I would have to ship my tool box, tools, rifle or rifles, stocks and parts out ahead of time because Colorado is just too far for me to drive and bring all that stuff with me. The students would also have to have a number of tools as only so many students could borrow my tools. I am also playing catch up on work that has come in and that I was not able to do because of my eye.
Bottom line is I am back to working out the details to teach such a class, but doubt we could do it before the spring or summer of next year. Heck, I still have to figure out how to teach enough stuff in a short time that it would be beneficial for a student to come to the class.
There is USUALLY the problem of getting enough students to teach such a class and pay transportation costs, food and motel costs and the teacher's salary. That would most likely not be a problem at the Colorado School of Trades because there are enough students already going there that the minimum required number of students might/would be available.
Bottom line is that while I don't have the details worked out yet, I hope to do something at the Colorado School of Trades.
Joined
·
927 Posts
Send a pm to Lazzerus2000 on this forum. He still offers some on-line stuff I believe, and used to do hands-on training in the Vancouver, B.C. area and points south (Washington State). Some of those are available on video. Then there's all the other vid clips available from Mr. Luppino and several others listed on the gunsmithing section of this forum.
That's one route to go.
That's one route to go.
Joined
·
7,047 Posts
OH, I forgot to mention the Colorado School of Trades also has two other things absolutely necessary for me to instruct a course, I.E. a coffee mess and Mountain Dew in the soda machines. Grin.
Edited to add: What I am thinking about doing is having two classes back to back out there. The first would be a basic armorer's course and the second would be a course on glass bedding and NM work. That way we could take advantage of giving courses folks like and breaking them down into what the want to learn while only having to pay airplane tickets and shipping costs one time.
Edited to add: What I am thinking about doing is having two classes back to back out there. The first would be a basic armorer's course and the second would be a course on glass bedding and NM work. That way we could take advantage of giving courses folks like and breaking them down into what the want to learn while only having to pay airplane tickets and shipping costs one time.
Joined
·
536 Posts
Heck, I'd even be willing to put my range and classroom up to host it. I am really the only one in my shop that knows anything about the 14, and what I know is pretty limited. Me and my folks could definately use an Armorer's Course.
Fortunately, the only M14's we have are used by the Honor Guard, so in the last few years, I think the only broken M14 I've inspected/repaired had a broken firing pin.
Fortunately, the only M14's we have are used by the Honor Guard, so in the last few years, I think the only broken M14 I've inspected/repaired had a broken firing pin.
Joined
·
913 Posts
I second this. I would also be interested.
Joined
·
7,047 Posts
Hey, if they let an Old [email protected] teach the class, they will allow one to be a student. Grin.
If and when we get it worked out, I will post it here to let more folks know. Thanks for the interest.
If and when we get it worked out, I will post it here to let more folks know. Thanks for the interest.
I've been asked in the past to teach a course on service rifle accurizing at Lassen College in Susanville, CA, but the lagistics didn't work out. I often get requests to instruct folks at my shop and that may happen. As Gus said, there isn't usually enough time to give a complete course. Three days may cover most of the basics of assembly, but accurizing requires a good deal more. It would be interesting to do. Most of us are getting long in the tooth and it's a consern who will pick up the ball after the old armorers are gone.
Joined
·
154 Posts
Gus, here's hoping you can put together something in Colorado next year. I would be very interested in a basic M14 armorer's course. Any preparatory reading materials you'd suggest before attending?
Joined
·
7,047 Posts
Anyone interested in working on the M14 style rifle absolutely should have these two books:
The first is great because it not only covers M14's but also M1 Garands.
“The U.S. .30 Caliber Gas Operated Service Rifles, A Shop
Manual, Volumes I & II”, by Jerry Kuhnhausen.
and:
TM 9-1005-223-34 Rifle, 7.62-MM, M14
http://www.m14.ca/TM/026381.pdf
Joined
·
153 Posts
I think you guy's are making more of this armore's business than what it really is. Make it a 2 to 3 part session. The people that are really interested should have and read the information that Gus Fisher spoke about. 2nd part the basics of assembly. Third for those who may be interested in accurizing. By the time the average joe gets to the third part and acturly uses what he has learned, he or she can just about be left todo a full maintenance job (Smithing) As TB knows the more you do something the better you become
Joined
·
7,047 Posts
Police Departments were able to get real M14's from the government up to a couple/few years ago. The two day course I taught them was a basic Infantry Weapons Repair course that did not include barreling or chambering. It also did not include fitting bolts and other parts that is so commonly necessary with commercial receivers. I did teach them how to inspect headspace, of course. I also taught them how to disassemble and reassemble everything on the rifle (EXCEPT the barrel) and normal fixes and tips and techniques. The most difficult thing to learn to do is disassemble and reassemble the trigger mechanism. We practiced that A LOT by their request. It was not always pretty when they first started doing it, but that's the same for most people when they first start doing it. Grin.
Joined
·
1,729 Posts
Mr. Fisher and Mr. Brown - perhaps the admin here and one or both of you gents would be O.K. with the idea of a forum group buy type thing, where we come to you, at your preferred location, for your preferred time frame, and learn what we can from you. You could give the details and we could sign up. I bet if either one of you offered some type of course in your own shop, garage, or living room, a lot of folks would be interested, at your preferred price. I know I would. I guess it might be possible to utilize one of those conference rooms at your local hotel of choice, if you would rather that. I would be glad to have the opportunity to meet up with one of you guys anywhere.
Joined
·
536 Posts
Ted- I would DEFINATELY find a way to get over to Oregon if you were to do a class, providing I could afford it! Especially considering you aren't too far away. This from a not-so-long-in-the-tooth Air Force armorer to one that's a bit longer in the tooth...
Joined
·
2,764 Posts
mineralman55 if you want to borrow a copy of the Kuhnhausen book, lets do coffee or beer GI6 and I'll bring it out.
Gus I know how you feel about all things "computer" GI6... However, does the Colorado School of Trades have the ability to stream these classes over the web? Has anybody even asked? There are plenty of schools that are offering programs via the web these days. They have the ability to be interactive with the participants. It allows you to reach a larger audience and keep the cost down. Trust me... I'm a Information Technology guru... GI6
Joined
·
7,047 Posts
I don't know for sure, but I doubt CST has the ability to stream the classes. Heck, it is a technological miracle I know what you mean by "streaming" a class. GRIN !!!!!
One thing I know Gus and I can agree on is that working on military M14's and working on commercial M14's is two different things. Any class can only cover the basics, which I'm sure would be benefitial to anyone. You have to start somewhere. I would think that those who would participate in such a class would have to have a complete parts kit and receiver to get started. While some things can be taught in a classroom, actual hands on experience must be acquired in the shop. Tools and machinery are required.
That said, I don't know how practical it would be for me to conduct a course at my shop. I'm located twenty miles from the nearest town with a motel. There is a camp ground or two within 5 miles and a restaurant (good beer). We also fish in the Applegate river behind the house. Also, I don't think it would be good to teach more than three students at a time with the limited resourses available. It's a thought.
That said, I don't know how practical it would be for me to conduct a course at my shop. I'm located twenty miles from the nearest town with a motel. There is a camp ground or two within 5 miles and a restaurant (good beer). We also fish in the Applegate river behind the house. Also, I don't think it would be good to teach more than three students at a time with the limited resourses available. It's a thought.
1 - 20 of 40 Posts
