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Discussion Starter #1
I've read years ago about ATF closing down M-K Specialties for Class 3 violations.. as far as M-14 rewelds were concerned.. I know this subject may have been covered before, but I searched the stickies and didn't see any info on it..My Question on the M-K Specialties rewelded receivers is?? are they legal to own?? or are they contra ban..?? I have seen them at gun shows several times over the years and I've always looked at them, but never knew for sure if they were legal to own.. or not.. so has there been any ruling one way or the other..?? I see all sorts of rewelded receivers these days... on boards.. and can't see any difference with the M-14 as long as the connector lock lug was ground off... B2B
 

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That was discussed on Several Boards including this one Years ago,they are Illegal to own, several Members of the old Battle Rifles had theirs confiscated, the ATF is still looking for some of those and Vendors that have them at Gun Shows must have "You know what's made of Brass"!ICONWINK
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I saw them many years ago so I doubt they were a problem at that time.. That is too bad, it would be cool to have a real logo'd M14 receiver but I do remember reading some stuff about it 10-15 years ago as far as the rewelding process of receivers goes.. So another question is, are all M14 rewelded receivers illegal or just the MK spec receivers?? B2B
 

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a welded together USGI M14 reciever is illegal. the ATF's premise is "once a machine gun, always a machine gun". altering the reciever does not change how they classify it.
 

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Yes you can own a welded M14, there are many that were done by Hahn. They did it the right way and got all there approvals from ATF.
 

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The M-K saga took a lot of people by surprise. However, the builder had made some representations to customers to which the U.S. govt took offense and denied that it had authorized, encouraged, or condoned. It's fair to say there were things done before '86 and especially before '68 that the govt had either considered beyond its reach or looked the other way. But in the M-K case they decided they had to re-set the bar and they succeeded so far as those rifles went. Some owners who got forfeiture notices hired good lawyers who made the right arguments all the way to the federal appeals courts. But they all lost. I'd say to anybody when it comes to re-welded M14's, own what you wanna own but be prepared to prove its provenance.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Sounds like we have some different answers to the questions.. I always hear about that " once a MG always a MG" deal but I see all sorts of receivers (these days) like the tons of Milled AK receivers being welded together in a semi Auto only form..and no one seems to give it a second thought seems like a M-14 cut in half would no longer be a receiver but a piece of scrap metal.. rewelding it into a semi auto only, seems to me to be the very same as welding any other MG receiver together.. where does one go to find all this stuff out as far as what is facts and what is not.. I know the ATF has often given conflicting answers to some questions/ some guns are legal and some guns of the same kind are not.. open bolts is one example.. they use to be legal but were determined to be too easy to convert to FA and they were pronounced illegal but the people who owned them were allowed to keep them (grandfathered) IMO I think M-K Specialties history should be a sticky it's a M-14 issue that people need to know about.. B2B
 

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You could look for articles by Steven Halbrook or Richard Gardiner. They're top-notch federal firearms law experts. There's also a fellow in TX named Paul Velte who founded PeacefulTexans. I've worked with Paul on some esoteric Class III/NFA issues. This is definitely one area of U.S. law and bureaucracy for which there's no such thing as too much education. You can't rely yea or nay on some of the advisories and interpretations by BATFE of the laws or its own regulations. They often include a disclaimer that the interpretation is the author's only, or today's only, and subject to change at any time. Good luck.
 

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Research is always your friend.......

My own recollection of the MKS debacle.....

There were two issues that were going on at the same time. The first with the rewelded receivers and the other with the MKS new receivers. Both the BATF had problems with.

In the first, MKS was going on the thinking that the Owens letter that approved the Hahn receivers, was a blanket permission. That coupled with the once a machine gun always a machine gun mentality/policy that the BATF adopted at the time also brought into play another dilemma for MKS. They didn't pay the $200 per receiver for the stamp thus the ensuing problems and confiscation.

The second, the way that MKS decided to weld the select fire parts to the side of the receiver is what got them into hot water with the new receivers. Even though they were rendered inoperable, because they were attached to the receiver in a way that the BATF deemed could be made to go select fire in less than 8 hrs using basic hand tools got those to be confiscated also.

Then the court cases. The end result was some time in the monkey house (jail) and some heavy fines.
 

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This is Old Hat, the Bottom Line IS that MKS Reweld Receivers are Illegal to own, some Sh#t House Lawers are just not satisfied with that Answer, they keep on with but,but, but! It IS what It Is and no one is going to change it, End of Story, You can own what You own but if You are caught with it You are on Your own!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
That is also what I remember about the case, basically the Atf didn't want MK making M-14's and put him out of business..(jail) I believe he had some fraud case also, didn't refund money's or rifles etc..something along those lines.. I was always told by people who knew, rewelding a receiver would/could be a problem with heat treatment and such as well.. I read along time ago about the process to do it right fixtures preheating etc etc... I personally don't plan or want a rewelded receiver.. I don't want any trouble as far as that goes either. it it's not legal I don't want it.. I have a perfectly good M1A if I had the $$ I'd get a LRB receiver but I don't have it these days... I've been out of the M-14 game for a bunch of years.. so I thought something may have changes as far as rules on rewelds... because I see a bunch of rewelds (on other guns being talked about) going on these days.. I also think it would be very cool to have a real logo (contractor ) receiver with out being a class 3.. too bad the CMP couldn't just grind off the connector lock and sell them like they did the Garands..LOL.. B2B
 

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Short answer: IF the USGI M14 receiver is marked either "PEARL" or "HAHN" or there is an approved ATF Form 4 associated with it, THEN it MAY be legal for a civilian to own. If the USGI M14 receiver does not fit one of the conditions, then it is illegal for a private non-FFL citizen to own in the United States.

The canon aka M14 Rifle History and Development discusses this issue further. If you have adequate Internet search foo, you can find a 2010 dated freebie copy of the canon.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
So where and how are these approved receivers marked? What was the approx # of approved receivers produced???
Thanks for the info.. B2B
 

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The problem with the welded receivers was where and when they were cut.

The US military demill spces called for one cut through the, "trigger area" of the receiver.

The civilian specs to demill firearms by the ATF call for more cuts and wider cuts.


The Mike Kelly receivers were imported from Israel and were not demilled to ATF specs but to older US military specs that don't even apply to imported firearms.

Some of the previously sold cut M14 receivers were demilled for disposable by the US military and those are / were legal to weld together. A few of those are around and many were welded by individuals over the years.

M14 receiver sections from Mike Kelly were illegally imported from Israel.
 
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