LRB Build Progress...

4964 Views 47 Replies 14 Participants Last post by MsgtMaze, Nov 24, 2003

Quagmire

Discussion Starter · Nov 10, 2003

OK, here's a progress report on my LRB M14 build:

I'd initially sent the receiver & parts kit to Clayton @ West Texas Ordnance to have him build it for me. He ran into some problems with the receiver & did his best to correct them. I was not entirely satisfied with the result, so I went ahead and sent the rifle off to Smith Enterprise to see what Ron and Bill could do with it.

Just got off the phone with Bill at Smith Enterprise. The firing pin bridge was cut wrong during manufacturing, and the receiver was too soft. Bill said they can fix the firing pin bridge and complete the build with no problems, but he highly recommended that I have the receiver heat treated to bring the Rockwell number up to spec. I told him to go ahead and do it (Duh!!

).

In the end, they're doing a "rack grade" assembly, heat treating the receiver, & reparkerizing the rifle for me (incl. melaniting the receiver). Bill said it should be complete in a couple of weeks. I'm looking forward to seeing the completed rifle.

From talking with Ron before sending him the rifle, he has been in contact with LRB over some of the issues he's found while working their receivers. He said that LRB is listening to what he has to say and are working to correct the problem areas. I'm going to call Lou at LRB today and let him know about the problems Ron & Bill have found with my receiver. I'm hoping that I can get them to cover the cost of the heat treatment (probably a futile hope here but we'll see). I'm not looking to recover any cost for the work on the firing pin bridge as that is covered as part of the assembly fee, but LRB needs to know about the problem so they can take steps to correct it in the future.

OK, that's where we're at at the moment. I'll post some pics & my impressions when I get the rifle back from SmithEnt.

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Oxmix

· #2 · Nov 10, 2003

Quag,
Bill at Smith told me the same thing about the receiver hardness on my LRB. Bill told me I was at the bottom end of spec and it was my decission about heat treating the receiver. Smith has talked to LRB about this. I talked to Lou at LRB. Lou says that the receiver hardness is ok and that Smith Enterprise is using a different means of testing receiver hardness. I'm not here to say who is right or who is wrong, but I find it interesting that both parties look at the problem differently. Ron Smith has always done a great job for me in the past and I have no reason to doubt him this time. If heat treating will make this receiver safer and more durable then that is what I want.
I'm happy we have people like Ron, Bill and Lou. Ron and Bill for their expertise in building M14 rifles and Lou for sticking his neck out to give us a hammer forged receiver. I look at these problems as start up problems that will be corrected in the future. Think of all of the problems Springfield, H&R, Winchester and TRW had initially. These are quite minor in comparison.

Regards

Ox

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MsgtMaze

· #3 · Nov 10, 2003

Well I guess it's time to chime in with my LRB report. I sent mine off to Smith Enterprise Oct 10 for it to be built into a Bush configuration. I've talked with both Ron and Bill on several occasions, and the reports on her have been positive. No heat treat or other major problems. Just out of curiosity, what S/N range is you rifles in? Mine is S/N 012XX. Which according to Different's report was the last batch. This will be the fourth rifle Smith Enterprise has built or re-built for me and I know it like the others will be perfect.

Oh, by the way the only reason I haven't gotten my rifle back yet is the front sight I ordered the H&K style is out of stock. Seems the Navy has been snapping them all up. My baby should get one out of Ron's next batch :wink:

Greg

Quagmire

Discussion Starter · #4 · Nov 10, 2003

Ox: All good points, thanks.

MsgtMaze: IIRC, my receiver S/N is one less than yours.

MsgtMaze

· #5 · Nov 10, 2003

Quagmire said:
Ox: All good points, thanks.

MsgtMaze: IIRC, my receiver S/N is one less than yours.

I guess that rules out the lot #'s theory

.

Greg

SixTGunr

· #6 · Nov 11, 2003

I just bought an LRB receiver SN # 12xx (Teens). My receiver shows signs of being tested for hardness, the pin pricks on the side of the heel. Hopefully my receiver is a little better than what you guys experienced. I actualy drove up from Philly to buy mine. I personally met Lou...He seems to be a good guy.

I am on the fence about who to send it to. What is the turnaround time for Smith? He gets good reports on the boards I frequent.

Thanks for the look and I will post my report when I get mine back...from whoever.

RickC
Philly

PapaFoxtrot

· #7 · Nov 11, 2003

Thanks to all of you LRB "pioneers" for your honest assessments and forthright progress updates.

It informs chickens like me who are sitting on the fence waiting to buy, but most importantly your feedback will help to produce a better LRB receiver.

Quagmire

Discussion Starter · #8 · Nov 11, 2003

RickCos: Turnaround with SmithEnt on this rifle build will end up being 3-4 weeks I think.

My LRB S/N is 121X, so it's really close to yours. Mine had the hardness test marks on the side of the heel too. Right now I'm thinking they are basically good receivers, but LRB hasn't made enough of them yet to quite get all the kinks worked out of the mfg. process. If they listen to Ron Smith's advice I think they could end up being some of the best M14 type receivers made.

Oxmix

· #9 · Nov 11, 2003

My receiver is an early one,#0101X. I found no hardness testing marks on the receiver. The receiver was flawless in appearance. I will not hesitate to buy another in the future. I do have to wait a while. I am on the list for a Smith Enterprise receiver.
So many M14's, so little money. :-(

Regards

Ox

SixTGunr

· #10 · Nov 12, 2003

I'm throwing this out there.

I think that Smith is just running up the cost of his builds and is saying that these receivers are not to the hardness spec for the buck.

Think about it. JV Precision is a legit machine shop and from what I am reading they are testing hardness of the receivers prior to shipment. One poster described the test as pin pricks.

Well...What gives....?

Anonymous by Choice

MsgtMaze

· #11 · Nov 13, 2003

Anon Guest said:
I'm throwing this out there.

I think that Smith is just running up the cost of his builds and is saying that these receivers are not to the hardness spec for the buck.

Think about it. JV Precision is a legit machine shop and from what I am reading they are testing hardness of the receivers prior to shipment. One poster described the test as pin pricks.

Well...What gives....?

Anonymous by Choice

Anonymous by Choice,

I don't think there is any builder of M14 rifles that is more knowledgeable than Ron Smith of Smith Enterprise. With that said. With every rifle I've sent to him for build or re-build (four to date), I've given him an open check to do what ever he thought needed to be done without question. He has never over charged or padded the job as you suggest. I asked him to re-bed one rifle that was at least 15 years old and after checking it he stated the bedding was fine and to leave it alone. I trust his judgment and honesty.

Greg Maze

thomjb

· #12 · Nov 13, 2003

New to M14/M1A's, but I have built quie a few AR's and Ron Smith helped me out when he did not have to and was a knowledgeable, supportive person. I could not have done better!

Expect the same in the M14/M1A arena.

Tom B

Oxmix

· #13 · Nov 13, 2003

I've had Ron work on 3 M14's for me this year. Receiver hardness was never an issue with those 3 rifles. I was told that my LRB receiver was at the minimum spec for hardness. It was my choice to have it heat treated. I have no problem with LRB, I think Lou is a great guy who has stuck his neck out, financially, to provide us with a forged receiver. He sold me a receiver that was in spec, be it the low end of the spec. I don't feel that he sold me a defective product. To the contrary, I feel it's a great product. To those of us here, these are our babies and we only want the best for them. Ron Smith has done a great job for me in the past and I will continue to support him in the future. I think this hardness issue will get worked out in the future. I think Ron Smith has more than enough business and doesn't need to do unnecessary repairs. If he did his reputation would be ruined in a heart beat.

As a side note, I noticed a couple hardness testing marks, pin pricks, on the latest Poly I bought. Anyone else seen these on their Poly?

To Anon, no flame intended.

Regards

Ox

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Nimrod

· #14 · Nov 13, 2003

LRB

Hi All sence I am a newby in here I have a couple of questands that might sound dunb but here goes. Who is a LRB receiver? Is the cost of the receiver plus having Smith Enterprise do a hardner thing and having him build a M1a for you, cost effective as having F.A. build you one or just getting a{ model# 9102 }from SA? Now if the cost is around $2500 there is a gentleman named Tom in Clovise Ca will build me one on a S.A. receiver I beleave so I am real confused right now 8O help

Oxmix

· #15 · Nov 13, 2003

Nimrod,
LRB is a company in Long Island that is selling the only American made forged M14 receiver.
I don't think that you will pay more than FA to have Ron Smith build you a M14 rifle on an LRB receiver. I guess it all depends how many bells and whistles you want.

Regards

Ox

Steve k

· #16 · Nov 18, 2003

I have been out of country for a couple of weeks and would have chimed in earlier but my reciever # 1 tested at 53 rockwell and Ron had zero problems with the build. Of course my receiver was the one sent to the ATF so i would imagine it would be the best out of the lot. From what Ron has told me he has been consulting with Lou and Lou is a 100 % receptive to Rons crtique of the reciever and 100 % willing to make the the nessecary changes to give us the best product he can. Another thing that Ron told me and things you would not read about is that the LRB recievers have no more problems than other manufactures of recievers it just most manufactures make thousands and the bad ones just get thrown away Ron said some of his recievers came up soft it just the nature of the game and in my opinion it is just that LRB is the new boy on the block and a little time is needed to be fully accepted.

Quagmire

Discussion Starter · #17 · Nov 18, 2003

Steve: I think most of the furor arose over a mistaken assumption on my part. Bill said the receiver needed the heat treatment. I assumed this was because it was soft. From a post MsgtMaze (I think it was him) made on BR though, it seems more likely that it needed the heat treatment because of the rework Bill did on the firing pin bridge, not because the receiver was too soft.

psychomark talked to Lou about the firing pin bridge issue:

psychomark said:
I had a chance to talk to Lou about the extra metal on the receiver bridge.

Lou says that on the earlier receivers they were all spec to the blueprints.

Here is how it got changed.

The machine shop that are making the receivers saw a sample of an Enterprise Arms M14 receiver that had a beefed up bridge. So the machine shop wanted to start making them with the beefed up bridge.

With the current receivers being barreled by Ron Smith word got back to Lou about the beefed up pin bridge. So from what Lou told me they will be going back to theUSGI specs and a flat pin bridge on future receivers being made. He told me that they have been making the receivers in small batches for such unforseen cases like this.

So, there was a problem with the firing pin bridge & LRB is already addressing it. I was wrong to make the assumption I did about the receiver being soft though. I never meant to denigrate aither LRB or SmithEnt. As I said in a post on BR, I think the LRB receivers are great & stand a good chance of being the best available after early production issues are ironed out. I believe that LRB is committed to producing a quality receiver.

Again, I'll be keeping my yap shut in the future to try & eliminate the occurance of any more events of this nature.

SixTGunr

· #18 · Nov 18, 2003

My buddy who came out with the first AK Milled receivers here in the US went throught the very same thing per say ....

It does take a bit to get all the kinks worked out and yet any of those receivers that were in the first couple of runs that had minor problems were rectified to the point where they are out there today and still tickin' with no problems.

There were several trips on a select few back and forth to the machine shop and heat treat until such time they were tweaked properly. You fellers that took the plunge are to be commended and I am confident that your faith in LRB will produce positive results in the long run for both you and LRB.

I wish I could afford one as I believe they are a fine receiver and will bring you many years of rootin' tootin' shootin' ... :wink:

Six

flcracker

· #19 · Nov 18, 2003

Quagmire - was the firing pin bridge the only thing that Clayton wasn't able to handle to your satisfaction? I'm still sitting here fondling my new parts kit waiting to have the $$ saved up for the receiver, so I still have time to debate back and forth about who I will have build the rifle. What can you pass on about the difference between WTO and Smith Ent. - level of service (just performing a straight build-up vs. those little "extras" that count so much), cost, turnaround time, optional services, etc..

Also, would there be any advantage in having LRB mount my barrel and headspace my bolts (gonna have a spare bolt headspaced at the same time) to the receiver vs. having the builder do it?

Thanks for your continued updates on your project.

flcracker

Different

· #20 · Nov 19, 2003

You can trust Smith Enterprise, Inc. Ron Smith is a fourth generation armorer. His dad did and now he supplies rifle parts to the U. S. military. They have made some of the finest commercial M14 type receivers ever. They developed the M14K, Sommers Vortex flash hider, and M14 extended bolt stop. They make a M14 scope mount now being used by the military. They make M14 sight parts, stock ferrules and gas cylinder locks. When needed, they accurize M14 rifles for Uncle Sugar. We are so very fortunate to have such a company available to us for help with our M14 type rifles.

I've had Smith Enterprise work on three M14 type rifles in 2003. In each case, they spoke the truth. Ron Smith himself stopped what he was doing when I walked in unannounced and took my M1A apart and gave it the critical eye examination. He told me exactly what he thought needed work and what I should leave well enough alone. :lol: I am more than pleased with the work they did for each rifle. Two out of three times the turnaround time was one day. The other rifle took two weeks only because it took one week to get a heavyweight Douglas barrel.

IOW, I highly recommend Smith Enterprise, Inc.

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