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Discussion Starter #1
I almost bought a rader trigger from springfield 2 years ago and now they aren't available. I really want a trigger like that that I can get down to 1 1/2 - 2 lbs. I read somewhere that sei also does adjustable triggers? Anyone know where I can get one?
Thanks,
Tom
 

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I have a Rader trigger in my M1A M21. I have a quite a bit t of experience with it and have a few observations:

These trigger groups are very smooth and have a crisp let off unless they are adjusted down to the lowest trigger pull possible. Then you will notice a little creep (more like a roller bearing feel) right before it lets off. However I don't think many would notice this. I think it is done this way on purpose to give the shooter some clue the trigger is about to break. See below.

Disassembly and reassembly of a Rader trigger group for cleaning and lubrication is not the same as a normal one. You have to take it apart and put it back together in a specific way. See my post on this in this forum. You also need to cut some material out of your stock (about 1/8") at the rear of the trigger group to clear the TG adjuster block/screw.

When a Rader trigger group is adjusted down to the levels you are talking about it is very hard to tell when the first stage ends and the second stage begins. It essentially becomes a single stage trigger.

IMHO setting the trigger pull as light as this group will allow is not wise unless the gun will only be shot off a bench or tripod. Shooting off hand, sitting or kneeling you are asking for a double unless your form is perfect. If I shoot a club position match I always put my stock trigger group back in with a trigger pull of 4.75 lb even though I can use the Rader if I want. I only use the Rader when I am shooting for groups off a bench or bipod. Also my groups get no better with the trigger set below 3 lb. However, I am not a shooter in the same class as the many other very experienced competitors/shooters on this forum. Hopefully they will weigh in too.

The lowest trigger pull I am comfortable with on my rifle is 3 lb and I am a light trigger junky.

To sum up I would advise getting SEI or competent gunsmith to do a NM tune up on your stock trigger group and leave it at that unless you really, really must have an adjustable trigger group. If so, you can find them fairly often on Gunbroker. I was lucky to buy mine new from a fellow M14 TFL forum member that happened to live nearby.

My 2 cents.
 

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1.5 - 2 lbs is waaaay too light for a 14 trigger, probably dangerous, and most certainly illegal in any NRA or EIC Service Rifle event. Five (total) lbs with a crisp clean break is all you need. If you think (for whatever reason?) you need less, you are doing something wrong in your shooting and/or expecting too much from the rifle...

That .02 can be cashed in at the bank...

If SAI or whoever once did something like this, there is probably a good reason why they don't any longer...
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I do most all of my shooting off the bench on bags. Its my for fun gun and I don't shoot any matches with it.. I have a natl match group and I want something lighter. I mostly single load from the mag with this gun anyways so I'm not really worried about doubling or anything anyways and I know how to pull a trigger back and slowly release for the reset. I just reallly like light triggers I guess
 

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I do most all of my shooting off the bench on bags. Its my for fun gun and I don't shoot any matches with it.. I have a natl match group and I want something lighter. I mostly single load from the mag with this gun anyways so I'm not really worried about doubling or anything anyways and I know how to pull a trigger back and slowly release for the reset. I just reallly like light triggers I guess
1.5 to 2 lbs is too light for a 14. If you like shooting from a rest and single loading why do it with a 14? It doesnt make sense. The rifle is not designed for a trigger pull that light... First you will will ruin a hammer making it release that light. You will make it unsafe because the sear will likely fail to engage it after firing a shot which will cause the hammer to ride the bolt back into battery which can lead to all sorts of other problems...Its not a good idea in any regard. Bolt gun and gas gun triggers are two entirely different creatures.....
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I do it because I can. Bottom line. I want it because I want it. Going that light with a gi trigger is deffinitely not safe. Which is where the rader or other group comes in. Thanks for the advice but I posted this asking where to get a trigger group not to talk about why you think my shooting technique is wrong if I want a trigger that light or to tell me I am expecting too much from the gun. I know the limitations of this gun and what I don't need is someone telling me why I don't need something when I didn't ask that question.
 

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I do it because I can. Bottom line. I want it because I want it. Going that light with a gi trigger is deffinitely not safe. Which is where the rader or other group comes in. Thanks for the advice but I posted this asking where to get a trigger group not to talk about why you think my shooting technique is wrong if I want a trigger that light or to tell me I am expecting too much from the gun. I know the limitations of this gun and what I don't need is someone telling me why I don't need something when I didn't ask that question.
Very well... Good luck...
 

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1.5 to 2 lbs is too light for a 14. If you like shooting from a rest and single loading why do it with a 14? It doesnt make sense. The rifle is not designed for a trigger pull that light... First you will will ruin a hammer making it release that light. You will make it unsafe because the sear will likely fail to engage it after firing a shot which will cause the hammer to ride the bolt back into battery which can lead to all sorts of other problems...Its not a good idea in any regard. Bolt gun and gas gun triggers are two entirely different creatures.....
Hmmm... Interesting. I do a lot of reading on TFL, because I don't know everything and I learn a lot here.

This is why your post caught my attention. I am not an expert on the Rader trigger, because I don't own one and have never shot with one, so I am interested to learn.

It would help me learn if you could post a little more background. Do you own a Rader trigger? Have you ever shot with a Rader trigger? Can you, off the top of your head, give us all a detailed description of the mechanical principles of the Rader trigger, and why they are designed to self-destruct and be unsafe? I am curious to learn so I will know why to avoid ever using one.

Can you post a link to any kind of reference on why Rader triggers are unsafe and will self-destruct? Or quote a reference of any kind?

Thanks for your help. DI5
 

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Hmmm... Interesting. I do a lot of reading on TFL, because I don't know everything and I learn a lot here.

This is why your post caught my attention. I am not an expert on the Rader trigger, because I don't own one and have never shot with one, so I am interested to learn.

It would help me learn if you could post a little more background. Do you own a Rader trigger? Have you ever shot with a Rader trigger? Can you, off the top of your head, give us all a detailed description of the mechanical principles of the Rader trigger, and why they are designed to self-destruct and be unsafe? I am curious to learn so I will know why to avoid ever using one.

Can you post a link to any kind of reference on why Rader triggers are unsafe and will self-destruct? Or quote a reference of any kind?

Thanks for your help. DI5
Where in the post of mine, that you just quoted, does it say Rader trigger, and I will answer your question. That being said why dont you inform the OP where he can get one, since he has just stated thats what he wants answered....DI5
 

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Where in the post of mine, that you just quoted, does it say Rader trigger, and I will answer your question. That being said why dont you inform the OP where he can get one, since he has just stated thats what he wants answered....DI5
Wow. Post #1, the original post, the post that started this thread, the original poster's question? Specifically about the Rader trigger or a possible SEI alternative? If all of your posts in this thread had nothing to do with the OP's question, then what did they have to do with?
 

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Wow. Post #1, the original post, the post that started this thread, the original poster's question? Specifically about the Rader trigger or a possible SEI alternative? If all of your posts in this thread had nothing to do with the OP's question, then what did they have to do with?
Trigger weight and what is too light for the gun itself. Im stating an experienced opinion, for what is inappropriate for this rifle, based on what a hammer and trigger must endure given the extreme nature of forces under which they must be manipulated safely and effectively...

PM me if you want to continue. Officially however, I stated what I think needs stating and am more or less done....
 

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1.5 to 2 lbs is too light for a 14. If you like shooting from a rest and single loading why do it with a 14? It doesnt make sense. The rifle is not designed for a trigger pull that light... First you will will ruin a hammer making it release that light. You will make it unsafe because the sear will likely fail to engage it after firing a shot which will cause the hammer to ride the bolt back into battery which can lead to all sorts of other problems...Its not a good idea in any regard. Bolt gun and gas gun triggers are two entirely different creatures.....
James. If you ever looked closely at a Rader trigger assembly you would see that it does not achieve a light trigger pull by screwing with the rear hammer hooks that engage the sear as part of the rigger reset process. In fact the TG doesn't even use a standard M14 sear/trigger assembly. The pull adjustment is achieved by preloading the trigger with a spring loaded plunger. Not by lessening the trigger hook/front hammer hook engagement. The trigger hook and front hammer hook angles are set to give the lightest possible pull with full TH and FHH engagement with no spring plunger force on the trigger. The highest possible pull is dictated by the strength of the adjustment plunger spring. That way you don't have to stone the rear hooks to change the front hook engagement to lighten the pull and you don't screw up the hand off between the rear hammer hooks and sear, and the front hammer hooks and the trigger hooks during a trigger reset. That is what causes hammer follow. A very clever design to get a safe light trigger. Thats my analysis of how an RTG works. If I'm wrong I'm sure I will be corrected - hopefully by Mr. Rader himself.

BTW I tend to agree that a 1.5 lb trigger pull is too light on an M1A unless whoever is shooting the rifle really knows what they are doing.
 

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James. If you ever looked closely at a Rader trigger assembly you would see that it does not achieve a light trigger pull by screwing with the rear hammer hooks that engage the sear as part of the rigger reset process. In fact the TG doesn't even use a standard M14 sear/trigger assembly. The pull adjustment is achieved by preloading the trigger with a spring loaded plunger. Not by lessening the trigger hook/front hammer hook engagement. The trigger hook and front hammer hook angles are set to give the lightest possible pull with full TH and FHH engagement with no spring plunger force on the trigger. The highest possible pull is dictated by the strength of the adjustment plunger spring. That way you don't have to stone the rear hooks to change the front hook engagement to lighten the pull and you don't screw up the hand off between the rear hammer hooks and sear, and the front hammer hooks and the trigger hooks during a trigger reset. That is what causes hammer follow. A very clever design to get a safe light trigger. Thats my analysis of how an RTG works. If I'm wrong I'm sure I will be corrected - hopefully by Mr. Rader himself.

BTW I tend to agree that a 1.5 lb trigger pull is too light on an M1A unless whoever is shooting the rifle really knows what they are doing.
Thank you for the info. I realize the design is different and is not a matter of stoning the hooks. Im stating that in terms of a normal trigger. It would be virtually impossible to stone the hooks on a normal 14 hammer to that level and still be functioning.

Yet, 1.5 lbs in a gas gun is "scary light", especially in a 14, regardless of the mechanism involved and in my opinion an unrealistically bad idea. Thats all Im saying....

Maybe it is genius, but if it was, they would be far more common, and Springfield, or someone else would (still) be producing them...
 

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Thank you for the info. I realize the design is different and is not a matter of stoning the hooks. Im stating that in terms of a normal trigger. It would be virtually impossible to stone the hooks on a normal 14 hammer to that level and still be functioning.

Yet, 1.5 lbs in a gas gun is "scary light", especially in a 14, regardless of the mechanism involved and in my opinion an unrealistically bad idea. Thats all Im saying....

Maybe it is genius, but if it was, they would be far more common, and Springfield, or someone else would (still) be producing them...
James. You are absolutely right. A normal trigger, with a normal trigger job procedure (stoning the rear hooks) for a pull that light probably would be unsafe because there wouldn't be enough engagement between the rear hammer hooks and the sear to ensure a proper trigger reset. Don't ask how I know.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I believe dale rader left springfield. Perhaps that may have had something to do with their discontinuation? I could be wrong but thanks for the tips guys! Ill check gunbroker but if y'all happen to come accross one let me know! Thanks
 

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Yes, Dale Rader left SA Inc. and is working for another shop in PA I believe. This is why the "Rader" trigger was discontinued. The Rader trigger can be adjusted to a very low pull without risking doubling, I think 1.5 to 5 pounds was the adjustable weight range. I think the mechanism is similar to that of a Geissele trigger.

SEI as far as I know does not have an adjustable trigger system or if they do they keep it a secret. They do "adjust" the trigger pull when they work on them but not sure beyond that.

Gun Broker and various boards are the best bet. This trigger was also advertised as an "M25 trigger" since it came with the M25 Whitefeather rifle which has also been discontinued. I believe they were around $300 and have most likely increased in value.

Hope this helps.
 

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NoExpert beat me to it, M25 was discontinued so along goes the Rader Trigger with it. I was interested in one for along time but read a lot of mixed reviews on it. I am a light trigger junkie and would love a lighter pull weight for my M1A. I have used a Jard 1.5 on an AR and only encountered problems with the trigger itself no doubles, if you know what you are doing it is fine. I have since switched to a JP 3lbs model and it is very adequate for what it is, most importantly it had never failed! I like the idea of a 1.5-2 lbs model for the M1A for precision work. Yes it is not safe to work a GI trigger below 4.5, but I would really like to see a drop in model made specifically to address the issues with the M1 trigger. A well modified NM M1 trigger is great, but a lighter trigger would be even better for my purposes. I do not shoot in matches, mostly benches and ranges prone and such. The Rader is the only option I have ever seen keep an eye out in the for sale sections and gun auctions site if you want one.
 
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