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The product still would be in the catalogs and on price lists, there would need to be some level of dealer and customer support and they would need to maintain some level of product inventory. Specific commercial packaging would still need to be maintained. It simplifies operations (and thus reduces overhead) when a product is simply dropped from the commercial line up. When it comes to running a profitable business, it is prudent to reduce product offerings if there is not adequate sales potential in that segment of the market. Rick
I agree that completely dropping a product line simplifies operations, but that's not exactly the case here. In my example, Mk4's wouldn't be in the catalog or on price lists, and there would be no need to maintain any level of inventory; if you order one you get it during the next production run. I'm also sure they will still make a box that it could ship in. As for dealer and customer support, Leupold is not going to stop providing CS for the existing Mk4's. Doing this would make the line more profitable as they minimize cost per unit by maximizing units produced.
 

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Since these scopes are too good for civilians, this civilian is too good to buy any model of their scopes. Weird how that works!
 
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There are a lot of legit Mark 4's available for 1/2 - 1/3 MSRP used.
Warranty is still valid.
4.5-14x50's in particular are glutted.
I should have jumped on one for $500 with MOA reticle but I'm happy with my 3.5-10x40.
 

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I agree that completely dropping a product line simplifies operations, but that's not exactly the case here. In my example, Mk4's wouldn't be in the catalog or on price lists, and there would be no need to maintain any level of inventory; if you order one you get it during the next production run. I'm also sure they will still make a box that it could ship in. As for dealer and customer support, Leupold is not going to stop providing CS for the existing Mk4's. Doing this would make the line more profitable as they minimize cost per unit by maximizing units produced.
If you don't have a product in your catalog or price lists, how will customers know they exist, how will dealers order them and what will they charge for them. You might as well do exactly what they are planning to do - drop the commercial product line. Take my word for this - what you suggest simply won't work in the marketplace. It will only lead to dissatisfaction. Companies exist to enhance stockholder value. Marketing and selling products that the customers don't want in volume is contrary to that aim. Don't look for anything sinister here - it's just how business operates. Everything is driven by demand and there is low demand for the Mk 4 scopes in the civilian sector. Rick
 

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If you don't have a product in your catalog or price lists, how will customers know they exist, how will dealers order them and what will they charge for them. You might as well do exactly what they are planning to do - drop the commercial product line. Take my word for this - what you suggest simply won't work in the marketplace. It will only lead to dissatisfaction. Companies exist to enhance stockholder value. Marketing and selling products that the customers don't want in volume is contrary to that aim. Don't look for anything sinister here - it's just how business operates. Everything is driven by demand and there is low demand for the Mk 4 scopes in the civilian sector. Rick

Thank you for the condescending remarks and the economics lesson, but you have no standing for me to 'take your word on this'.
Do you really believe that people would forget that Leupold MK4's exist? Hardly.
Douglas Haig has the most logical explanation in that keeping pricing affordable for the civilian market is keeping pricing down in military and leo sales where profit margins are much higher. That would justify the exit.
Otherwise, suggesting that it's good business for a company to not sell products that it's already producing anyway is just beyond me. Catalogs and price lists are all electronic now anyways, so let's not pretend that it's a huge expense to have some 18 year old intern maintain those.
Maybe that's why I'm working on my 2nd million - I was too dumb to make the 1st million.
 

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The MK4 line has been the gold standard for most Tactical style optics for most of my life, it wasn't until lately that they started to loose their edge. I wonder if the large amount of knock offs from HK is having an effect on this decision.
 

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If sales were soft theyed discontinue it period, not just for some. Makes zero sense. Nor do I support companies who sell otherwise legal items but just not to 'civilians'! So leupold can go on my FU list just like Hornady
 

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If sales were soft theyed discontinue it period, not just for some. Makes zero sense. Nor do I support companies who sell otherwise legal items but just not to 'civilians'! So leupold can go on my FU list just like Hornady
Minefield, When a product that is available to both civilians and the military and that product sees reduced civilian demand, it is not uncommon to stop offering that product to the civilian market due to the reduced demand but still make it available to the military in order to fulfill the requirements of the original contract. When items such as these scopes are adopted for use by the military, it is customary to require that replacement items and spare parts be available for an extended period of time as part of the original contract. It only makes sense that the military makes that demand since they may continue to field a product even after that product has gone through its normal commercial life cycle and been replaced by newer products. It is generally pretty straightforward for a supplier to do that since the military orders are generally fairly large orders and they only come in occasionally. As a result, it really doesn't mess up their production schedules very much. Commercial products need to be manufactured frequently throughout the year and that can impact production scheduling especially if there is very low demand for that product in the commercial sector. It's just economics - not a sinister plot to deprive civilians of some product. Rick
 

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There are plenty of scope that are better then what the MK IVs are and for Leupold prices the MK IV at many look past them. To me the MK IV line is an $800 scope at best not 1600 like some of the long range MK IVs are priced at. Leupold has finally caught up with matching reticles and just started offering MOA/MOA scopes. Many other companies have been doing that for 10 years or more. The competition scopes have zero stops where as the MK IV line does not. Factor in that military contracts state if you are selling the govt a product at a certain prices and you sell that very same product in the public sector you must sell it for the same price as you are selling it to the govt. That is what is hurting them IMHO.

I also think that Leupold has something else in the works to replace the MK IV for the public, something has to fill that void because the MK 6 and MK 8 is even more expensive.
 

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I don't have any first hand knowledge but what I'm reading and hearing suggests that Leupold is discontinuing the Mk4 line but they have to fulfill the standing contracts with Mil/LE. So they aren't "restricting" the line so much as phasing it out.

CC
 

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Had occasion to speak with Leupold today and inquired as to the so called "phasing out" of the MK 4 line and individual stated that he did not know the reason, but did shed some light on the subject by saying just hold your breath for a bit and something else coming down the pike?? The so called used* MK 4 10X/M1 I bought is fine for my purposes and was assured that service for such scopes would continue as for all their scopes.
*There is no such thing as a used Leupold for the scope is fully supported warranty wise no matter how many times it has been owned in the past, buy one at a gun show, send it back if needed and they will fully restore it, what's not to like??
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
I use my rifle scopes frequently, and use the rigs they are mounted on pretty hard. I've yet to have to send a NF back for any sort of issue or repair. I see hundreds of NF scopes in the hands of my students every year.......ain't seen one of them go bad either.

I've seen more Leupold Mark 4's crash than all other optics put together. I've also seen Mark 6's and Mark 8's crash. Even if the Mark 6/8 doesn't crash, they've got the worst feeling turrets. Tons of backlash. Feel like the steering wheel on my Grandpa's old 1972 Ford pickup......you can drive straight down the rode, rotate the steering wheel 2" in either direction, and the truck keeps on driving straight down the road. That's what the Mark 6/8 turrets feel like to me.

There's a reason Leupold has such an excellent customer service department: because they've had LOTS of practice.

When the Army bought Leupold scopes, it wasn't because the Leupold was the top performer. It wasn't even close to the top. Leupold won the contract because it passed the bare minimum requirements and was CHEAPEST of the scopes that did so.
 
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