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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I have been looking for a 1-4x22 to 24 optic for a "light DMR" project that I'll be jumping into upon returning home from a deployment.

1st: The rifle: ( The M14 sporting the Arms #18 split rail mount below)


Edit: the org. pic I had here was dumped by some fool out of photobucket






Heres my guide lines so far. (Optic and rings)

1. Budget : I'm on a very tight budget with this plan as my addiction for M14's, and ammo for them always seems to win out..lol
In short.... the best quality I can get for under 250-300, to include rings if possible.

2. I would like it to have the same profile as the optic pictured below, but with detachable rings.

Edit: Same deal. He dumped all of my pics, but good ole karma will catch up to the fool/coward sooner or later.

3. True 1x at this setting, with up to a 4x setting in 22 to 24.

4. Illuminated reticle. ( the type that can still be used with or without the batteries on.).

5. As compact and lightweight as I can find.

6. Applications = point blank out to 700-750yds....... for hog hunting.

7. Reliable/repeatable adjustments/ waterproof/ Temp range of -20 degrees F.....to 130 degrees F.


I'm looking at this one, even thou it pushes my budget for optics to the breaking point...
http://www.leatherwoodoptics.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=51&Itemid=61

anyone use this optic, and if so, what do you think of it?


Here is another that I'm looking into....
http://www.millettsights.com/scopes/dms/
(not sure if this optic can be used without working battery however ?)

Opinions on these optics, ring selection, and other optics of this type would be appreciated.( Links to them as well)

Thanks in advance,
Fragout
 

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I have been using a Hi-Lux/Leatherwood CMR on my Bush rifle mounted in a Sage Mod 1. So far I have been very happy with this scope. On the plus side the optics are very clear and bright, and the click adjustments track like they should. On the negative side the clicks themselves have a little bit more of a mussy feel to them, not as crisp a feel as a Leupold. Also the reticle is not as bright in full daylight as I would like, but its really not intended to be a substitute for an Eotech or Aimpoint. I got mine at SWFA for $249 and so far its been a good unit. Only time will tell how well it holds up. I would not hesitate to buy another one.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I have been using a Hi-Lux/Leatherwood CMR on my Bush rifle mounted in a Sage Mod 1. So far I have been very happy with this scope. On the plus side the optics are very clear and bright, and the click adjustments track like they should. On the negative side the clicks themselves have a little bit more of a mussy feel to them, not as crisp a feel as a Leupold. Also the reticle is not as bright in full daylight as I would like, but its really not intended to be a substitute for an Eotech or Aimpoint. I got mine at SWFA for $249 and so far its been a good unit. Only time will tell how well it holds up. I would not hesitate to buy another one.
Can you still use the reticles if the battery is turned off?
 

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Yes, the reticule is actually etched on the glass, so you always have a black reticule. also only the dot and horse shoe illuminate.
 

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With the ARMS 18 mount and the HiLux CMR you will have a problem getting it to mount as in the photo in your OP. The tube between the turret housing and the ocular bell on the CMR is 2.1". It needs to be at least 2.2" for the ocular bell to clear the rear sight aperture (with the aperture cranked all the way down).

I've been researching the same problem.

So far, the best option I've seen is the Vortex Viper PST in 1-4x. The rear tube is 2.2". With a narrow profile ring (like a TPS ring, as opposed to something like the Burris Xtreme Tactical rings), the scope's main tube should be able to sit right down over the rear sight aperture.

On my rifle, I've currently got rings that put the bottom of the scope tube 0.32" above the Picatinny rail of the ProMag PM081a mount (which matches the ARMS #18 dimensionally for rail height). My scope tube sits 0.20" above the rear sight aperture with the aperture fully retracted. Thus, rings with 0.25" or similar clearance should put your main tube as low as it's going to get without striking the rear sight aperture (I'm unaware of any quality rings lower than 0.25").

The lowest TPS rings are 0.33" from rail to tube on the 30mm rings.

Weaver makes a set of what they call "4 Hole Tactical Rings" that would seem to be narrow enough to put the main tube adequately far back. The low height is 0.25"

At this point, I'm leaning toward the Vortex Scope and the TPS rings, even though the scope will wind up slightly higher than I can conceivably wring out of it.

I've worked up a Ghetto Fabulous cheek rest that will get my ridiculous Nordic face up where it needs to be to see through the damned thing.

More on that later.
 

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I ordered a burris fullfield tactical 2-7X35 that is on closeout from swfa. It's got covered target turrets, a bdc reticle. $165 w/ bc flip covers. I've got arms 22m's on an ams 18 new style mount. Was gonn go with a DMS1 but the price was right on the burris.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Outstanding info everyone. Just what I was looking for. Thanks again.

looks like something was wrong with my pics, as they got erased. Most likely my fault as I no very little about pictures. ( The wife handles that, but for some reason they wouldnt let me stick her in a duffel bag on the way out the door, so my computer guru is stuck in the rear as of now.)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
With the ARMS 18 mount and the HiLux CMR you will have a problem getting it to mount as in the photo in your OP. The tube between the turret housing and the ocular bell on the CMR is 2.1". It needs to be at least 2.2" for the ocular bell to clear the rear sight aperture (with the aperture cranked all the way down).

I've been researching the same problem.

So far, the best option I've seen is the Vortex Viper PST in 1-4x. The rear tube is 2.2". With a narrow profile ring (like a TPS ring, as opposed to something like the Burris Xtreme Tactical rings), the scope's main tube should be able to sit right down over the rear sight aperture.

On my rifle, I've currently got rings that put the bottom of the scope tube 0.32" above the Picatinny rail of the ProMag PM081a mount (which matches the ARMS #18 dimensionally for rail height). My scope tube sits 0.20" above the rear sight aperture with the aperture fully retracted. Thus, rings with 0.25" or similar clearance should put your main tube as low as it's going to get without striking the rear sight aperture (I'm unaware of any quality rings lower than 0.25").

The lowest TPS rings are 0.33" from rail to tube on the 30mm rings.

Weaver makes a set of what they call "4 Hole Tactical Rings" that would seem to be narrow enough to put the main tube adequately far back. The low height is 0.25"

At this point, I'm leaning toward the Vortex Scope and the TPS rings, even though the scope will wind up slightly higher than I can conceivably wring out of it.

I've worked up a Ghetto Fabulous cheek rest that will get my ridiculous Nordic face up where it needs to be to see through the damned thing.

More on that later.
Sounds like you and I are looking for a very similar set up! I would be very interested in what you find out regarding the rings/optics combo you decide to go with, and where it all ends up as far as profile, eye relief, etc....
 

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Since you listed a criteria as point blank out to 700 yards, aren't you concerned the HiLux BDC is for .223?
 

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I have a Leatherwood 1X4 that the reticle has clocked. I have e-mailed them to see about repair, no response back. So I'd be Leary of them.
 

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Greetings,

I've had that Millet on a 20" AR for about 3 years now. It's a pretty decent scope for the $ and I've had no problem at all with mine. The reticule (doughnut and dot) is visible without using the illumination. Not sure if it is "true" 1x, but if not, pretty close.

Per your post wanting to use it up to 700 yards, I think that's a big stretch, but really depends on your eyes. Rule of thumb being 1x for each 100 yards. With my eyes, it's a decent 200 yard scope, but that's about it.

At the time, I bought a really good 30mm mount (GGG), figuring I could upgrade the optic at some point and continue to use the mount. I recently got a Leupold MK4 3-10x40 and just installed it, but have not been out to the range with the new set up yet.

Hope that helps!

Regards, Jim
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Since you listed a criteria as point blank out to 700 yards, aren't you concerned the HiLux BDC is for .223?
The one I'm interested in = 168gr 308. Not 62 gr 223.

Click on the link in my 1st post. Scroll down to "CMR Range Data Chart".
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Greetings,

I've had that Millet on a 20" AR for about 3 years now. It's a pretty decent scope for the $ and I've had no problem at all with mine. The reticule (doughnut and dot) is visible without using the illumination. Not sure if it is "true" 1x, but if not, pretty close.

Per your post wanting to use it up to 700 yards, I think that's a big stretch, but really depends on your eyes. Rule of thumb being 1x for each 100 yards. With my eyes, it's a decent 200 yard scope, but that's about it.

At the time, I bought a really good 30mm mount (GGG), figuring I could upgrade the optic at some point and continue to use the mount. I recently got a Leupold MK4 3-10x40 and just installed it, but have not been out to the range with the new set up yet.

Hope that helps!

Regards, Jim
My target at out to 700 will be old "Ivan" targets, and I can hit them with a decent degree of regularity out to 500 with iron sights...depending on weather conditions, and if I stay away from the coffee...lol


Those MK4;s are sure nice, but out of the budget for this project. I like to hunt hogs with the same rifle, but found that the min of 3 power was just too much for them critters up close and especially when spooked.
 

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Greetings,

Hi Fragout2000............curious, what is the typical range you'd encounter and engage a hog? Hog hunting is something I'd really like to try at some point. Thanks!

Regards, Jim
 

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Sounds like you and I are looking for a very similar set up! I would be very interested in what you find out regarding the rings/optics combo you decide to go with, and where it all ends up as far as profile, eye relief, etc....
Sorry I didn't see your reply before now.

Yes, we are looking toward the same idea, I believe.

I'm saving up for the Vortex PST 1-4 Mil/Mil scope now. Hopefully they will come available right around the time my tax refund gets in. I'll give you a full report when it happens.

-LC
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Greetings,

Hi Fragout2000............curious, what is the typical range you'd encounter and engage a hog? Hog hunting is something I'd really like to try at some point. Thanks!

Regards, Jim
I have engaged them at anywheres from 20 yds out to 350plus yds myself.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Sorry I didn't see your reply before now.

Yes, we are looking toward the same idea, I believe.

I'm saving up for the Vortex PST 1-4 Mil/Mil scope now. Hopefully they will come available right around the time my tax refund gets in. I'll give you a full report when it happens.

-LC
Sounds great. i'll be looking forward to your eveluation of the Vortex scope, along with the rings you decide to go with
 
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