[RVPilot76]

Thinking about mounting one of these on my Loaded Stainless (Nadine).
http://swfa.com/Leatherwood-1-4x24-CMR-Tactical-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P45852.aspx
Reviews look good so far (there are a few negatives), and the price is tough to beat!

Kevin

 

[4track]

Yeah they look nice, and I was tempted to try one last year when they were unveiled. However, know this; the are made in China.

That is what stopped me from getting one.

 

[bigmike82]

The Millet DMS-1 is actually a bit cheaper, and has pretty good reviews as well.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=805884

I was going to say I'd be happy to sell you one, but both Midway and SWFA have it for 200...which I can't beat.

So yeah. If you're looking for a cheap 1-4x scope, the DMS-1 could be a decent option as well.

 

[Col. Colt]

Jim Leatherwood's original design ART I and ART II scopes were adopted and used by our military, largely because they solved the range estimation problem simply, elegantly and without having to do calculations in the heat of battle, or employ some battery powered laser that gives away your position.

It is a brillant design, and I know of nothing better or more practical for combat, design wise. The original scopes served up until Desert Storm, and some may still reside in Special Ops armories. They were not perfect, and for some reason not developed further as a military item when Leatherwood himself stopped working on the design. A modern, optimumly built version would seem to be needed.

That said, it is unfortunate that it is now, like far too many American names today, made in China. There are some technical improvements in the modern Leatherwood scopes to be sure - like the ability to set the scope for any round, instead of having to purchase exact "cams" to give the right trajectory. And even Chinese glass of today is probably better than 1960's glass from then, although I would defer to an expert on optical glass. Viewed in light of a single, standard issue round and the above listed advantages, it seem far better and quicker than mildots. Perhaps Leatherwood should consider partnering with a US firm to make an ultimate American Military Scope for today? CC

 

[Hgunner]

I actually have a CMR mounted on my Sage Mod 1.
I know its made in China and I don't like that either, but that being said, so far I am very pleased with this scope.
It's elevation and windage adjustments don't feel as crisp as I would like, but they work just fine. They track true and return to zero like they should. I thought the reticle would be a little on the busy side, but it took very little getting use too and works well. What really surprised me about this scope was the clarity and crispness of the glass and reticle. I am a Leupold fan, and this is the first scope I've bought in years that isn't a Leupold. I would say that the clarity of the optics on the unit I got was every bit as good as on my Leupold's.
The illumination is not as bright in full day light on a bright sunny day as I would like, but it wasn't designed to be a EoTech or Aimpoint and the Dot is quite visible and easy to pick up with the illumination turned off. So far the unit works as advertised and longterm durability will have to be proven over time. But for $249 bucks I am quite pleased with this scope so far.

 

[RVPilot76]

I actually have a CMR mounted on my Sage Mod 1.
I know its made in China and I don't like that either, but that being said, so far I am very pleased with this scope.
It's elevation and windage adjustments don't feel as crisp as I would like, but they work just fine. They track true and return to zero like they should. I thought the reticle would be a little on the busy side, but it took very little getting use too and works well. What really surprised me about this scope was the clarity and crispness of the glass and reticle. I am a Leupold fan, and this is the first scope I've bought in years that isn't a Leupold. I would say that the clarity of the optics on the unit I got was every bit as good as on my Leupold's.
The illumination is not as bright in full day light on a bright sunny day as I would like, but it wasn't designed to be a EoTech or Aimpoint and the Dot is quite visible and easy to pick up with the illumination turned off. So far the unit works as advertised and longterm durability will have to be proven over time. But for $249 bucks I am quite pleased with this scope so far.

Your review pretty much mirrors everything I've read about this optic so far. I'm gonna get one of these as soon as funds allow it.

Kevin

 

[4track]

...I am a Leupold fan, and this is the first scope I've bought in years that isn't a Leupold...

Hgunner, you might be interested to know that Leupold recently released a very similar reticle, the CMR2, for their Mk IV MR/T 1.5-5x.

 

[MeanStreaker]

What is the consensus on the durability of this scope? I am leaning towards the Leupold with the reticle posted above simply because it has a proven track record.

Am I being snobbish to be a little wary due to the CMR's price point? I'd sure like to pick one up if it's close to bulletproof.

 

[Hgunner]

Hgunner, you might be interested to know that Leupold recently released a very similar reticle, the CMR2, for their Mk IV MR/T 1.5-5x.


That wasn't avalible when I bought my Hi-Lux/Leahterwood CMR. It sure looks nice but it's also 4 times the price, which I could see for a higher power optic with target turrents etc.
But for a scope in the 1-4/1.5-5 range I think $600 or $700 max should get you there, I just don't see dropping 1k on a scope in that power range.

 

[Hgunner]

What is the consensus on the durability of this scope? I am leaning towards the Leupold with the reticle posted above simply because it has a proven track record.

Am I being snobbish to be a little wary due to the CMR's price point? I'd sure like to pick one up if it's close to bulletproof.

I thought the same thing when I bought mine, but $249 was cheap enough that I wouldn't feel totally screwed if it turned out to be garbage. I took a chance and so far I've been pleasantly surprised. As for durability only time will tell but so far it's held up through several shooting sessions, Probably 400rnds so far.

 

[henschman]

The BDC in that Leupold scope is set for 62 grain 5.56. It wouldn't be exactly right for 7.62. Pretty close out to 500 though.

 

[4track]

The BDC in that Leupold scope is set for 62 grain 5.56.

So is the Leatherwood CMR. You can see the manufacturer's reticle specifications right here.

The Leupold is an American made alternative with nearly identical features.

As for Millett and Leatherwood/Hi-Lux...I have used two Chi-Com made scopes in the past...including the Millett brand DMS-1. At the time that I purchased them, I thought that buying a cheap Chinese scope was OK, as I was only trying to find out what would work best for my needs. If it broke, I would simply get something better.

Then the great recession hit.

I was out of work for a good while due to this, and things got pretty tight financially around my home. Once I was gainfully employed again, I made a personal vow to no longer support, cheap, commie labor, import junk any longer.

With the money that I wasted on the two crappy Chi-Com scopes, I could have easily been on my way to affording a nice Leupold or Night Force, plus I would have been putting food on the table of some other man, like myself.

Personally, if I am going to invest in an optic, I am going to make the utmost effort to purchase quality products made domestically by American workers.

 

[Hgunner]

So is the Leatherwood CMR. You can see the manufacturer's reticle specifications right here.

The Leupold is an American made alternative with nearly identical features.

As for Millett and Leatherwood/Hi-Lux...I have used two Chi-Com made scopes in the past...including the Millett brand DMS-1. At the time that I purchased them, I thought that buying a cheap Chinese scope was OK, as I was only trying to find out what would work best for my needs. If it broke, I would simply get something better.

Then the great recession hit.

I was out of work for a good while due to this, and things got pretty tight financially around my home. Once I was gainfully employed again, I made a personal vow to no longer support, cheap, commie labor, import junk any longer.

With the money that I wasted on the two crappy Chi-Com scopes, I could have easily been on my way to affording a nice Leupold or Night Force, plus I would have been putting food on the table of some other man, like myself.

Personally, if I am going to invest in an optic, I am going to make the utmost effort to purchase quality products made domestically by American workers.

Actually the Hi-Lux/Leatherwood will work with .308 168grn also, look at your chart again.
I understand how you feel about Red China, I'm not happy about it either. Originally I wanted a put a Leupold Mark 4 CQ/T on my Sage, but mounting and eye relief were issues that I could not reasonably resolve. If Leupold could bring in the new offering for the price of, what I can get a CQ/T for I would consider it.

 

[RVPilot76]

I also agree about keeping our dollars here at home, but Leupold is charging OVER FOUR TIMES what Leatherwood wants for their optic. I would happily pay twice for an American made optic, but FOUR TIMES?!!! Oh, I forgot it says tactical; that's where the cost difference comes from...It's funny, I had a 3.5-10x40 Mark 4 w/M3 knobs that I got from SWFA for $699. This was before everyone and their brother got Tacticoolitis and the manufacturers started skyrocketing prices just for the privilege. Same scope, same dealer, 3 years later:

http://swfa.com/Leupold-35-10x40-Mark-4-LRT-30mm-Riflescope-P94.aspx

That's an increase of 68.8% folks. I sure wish my pay would increase along with the cost of products...

Someone's kids are going to an Ivy league school,

Kevin

 

[4track]

Actually the Hi-Lux/Leatherwood will work with .308 168grn also, look at your chart again.

Yeah, I know. That was what I was trying to show to henschman.

As for the higher cost of the Leupold versus the import optics...as long as we, as Americans, continue justify our buying of junk made overseas simply because it is less expensive, then the situation will only get worse.

Go to any Walmart.

Nearly 90% of everything the sell nowadays is made in China. In the earlier days of that company, they took pride in selling only American made products. Not anymore. It is all about making the most profit with the least amount of investment for companies like this.

Aside from manufacturing all of products that we buy, China also, essentially, owns us as a nation with respect to our debt. I personally will gladly pay extra for American made optics (and other gear, for that matter) rather than sell out my fellow Americans.

It is the same with food.

I pay more for organic and locally grown foods whenever I can. I appreciate the food more, and treat it with more respect.Yes it costs bit more than genetically modified and imported food, but it is of higher quality, and it helps to keep alive the American way of life that we seem to have lost long ago because we want to save a little cash.

However, the problem with most American consumers is that we want our products in three ways; Cheap, Fast, and NOW! We cannot get that without selling ourselves out.

Anyway, enough with my rant on global economics.

The bottom line is this: The "Made In China", "just as good as" scopes like Millett and Hi-Lux seem like a good idea at first to someone on a tight budget. However, down the road, one will likely regret the purchase, due to the lower quality standards of these products. I found this out for myself the hard way. The two Chi-Com scopes that I wasted my money are gathering dust in the basement right now. In the end, I still had to save up even more money to get a Leupold.

The old adage is still true today; "Buy once, cry once. Buy twice, cry twice".

Your mileage may vary.

 

[MeanStreaker]

Bump. GI2

Anyone else have any experience or can point to a link for durability/ruggedness tests on this?