Koh Tang
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Stars and Stripes has an interesting story on the battle: http://www.stripes.com/fate-of-marines-left-behind-in-cambodia-in-1975-haunts-comrades-1.214568.
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196 Posts
A sad story. A dark episode in our history.
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472 Posts
Crap, never knew this story. And I pay attention to these types of things, (even though at the time I was quite young).
Once again I don't know the intricacies of the command decision to not go back or not (disposition of forces etc.) but the cover up is the worst part.
Thanks XXXMarine
Baldur
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7,107 Posts
I remember well when this happened. It is a sad chapter in the Corps' history.
My personal view of it is that those first couple years after the Corps' withdrawal from Vietnam were tough. By 1975, the combat veterans of Vietnam had all but disappeared from the ranks and the inexperienced Marines who were sent to Koh Tang were unprepared for what they encountered and what quickly became a savage battle. Their leaders were equally unprepared and when that combination exists, this is what happens.
It is always a difficult decision to determine if more lives should be sacrificed to rescue or retrieve other Marines, and the cold hard truth is that oftentimes it is not the thing to do, irrespective of the creed that no man will be left behind.
The real shame is that it was all unnecessary because the Mayaguez crew were not on Koh Tang.
My personal view of it is that those first couple years after the Corps' withdrawal from Vietnam were tough. By 1975, the combat veterans of Vietnam had all but disappeared from the ranks and the inexperienced Marines who were sent to Koh Tang were unprepared for what they encountered and what quickly became a savage battle. Their leaders were equally unprepared and when that combination exists, this is what happens.
It is always a difficult decision to determine if more lives should be sacrificed to rescue or retrieve other Marines, and the cold hard truth is that oftentimes it is not the thing to do, irrespective of the creed that no man will be left behind.
The real shame is that it was all unnecessary because the Mayaguez crew were not on Koh Tang.
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1,562 Posts
I was there. Once we did the head count and knew they were left behind we were told by higher ups that they decided the guys were already dead and it wasn't worth the effort to get them back.....to say we were upset doesn't even come close. It remains with me to this day. My most shocking moment was when years later I was tasked with providing security for the moving Vietnam wall and I saw their names on the last panel. I broke down and cried. You know the part that bothers me......we were trained to believe that we don't leave anyone behind on the battlefield. I imagine they were waiting for us to turn a corner and rescue them before they were executed up until that bullet killed them. BUT now I know our government doesn't give a CENSOREDGI about us, just like the 4 guys in Benghazi who waited for help.
Politicians are cowards and the Nation doesn't really care.
We were young Marines( I was a L/Cpl E-3 then) and all of us had just completed ITS training and only been on Okinawa for a couple of months before we were loaded up and sent on that mission. We even talked with each other and wondered why they chose us since we had no combat time and there were other more experienced units available. But I later learned there is no really good time to bloody up your troops. We were lucky we had a couple of Sergeants who had 3 tours in Vietnam. I know there will never be any peace for those of us who came back.
I keep the original handbill given us during the Memorial we had for our fellow Marines killed listing their names, once we came back to Camp Schwab in Okinawa. It's on my wall framed.
I left the Marines later and only re-enlisted in the Texas Army National Guard when I missed the service so much. I retired in 2000 and have for years been approached by people wanting to do movies and documentaries of this mission. I just want to let it go, yet want to get the word out there about our politicians.
Thank you all for remembering these fine young Marines who gave their life and the hope they carried with them to their graves knowing help was on the way.
Politicians are cowards and the Nation doesn't really care.
We were young Marines( I was a L/Cpl E-3 then) and all of us had just completed ITS training and only been on Okinawa for a couple of months before we were loaded up and sent on that mission. We even talked with each other and wondered why they chose us since we had no combat time and there were other more experienced units available. But I later learned there is no really good time to bloody up your troops. We were lucky we had a couple of Sergeants who had 3 tours in Vietnam. I know there will never be any peace for those of us who came back.
I keep the original handbill given us during the Memorial we had for our fellow Marines killed listing their names, once we came back to Camp Schwab in Okinawa. It's on my wall framed.
I left the Marines later and only re-enlisted in the Texas Army National Guard when I missed the service so much. I retired in 2000 and have for years been approached by people wanting to do movies and documentaries of this mission. I just want to let it go, yet want to get the word out there about our politicians.
Thank you all for remembering these fine young Marines who gave their life and the hope they carried with them to their graves knowing help was on the way.
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Unfortunately, many of the lessons that should have been learned in that operation were not addressed then, and came back in spades (and not as easily hushed up) during Operation Eagle Claw....
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This is the original hand bill from Memorial.
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Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
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I'm truly sorry you had to experience this.
Just like you, I believed we would never leave anyone behind, but following that creed can demand a high price.
During the clearing operation at Khe Sanh we had three companies of 1/9 that were fed piecemeal into an ambush to extract the first company that had walked into it. When they finally were able to disengage we had nearly 30 KIA and about twice that number WIA. All but four of the KIA had to be left behind because it was not possible to retrieve them under the existing conditions. 1/9 was withdrawn and another battalion was assigned to retrieve those bodies. They suffered a significant number of additional KIA and WIA in doing so. Several of the bodies they recovered had been mutilated by the NVA. Everyone always wants to have the solace of believing that they will not be left behind, and just like you, no one wants to leave anyone behind, but having other Marines die to fulfill that creed is a very sobering experience.
Again, I'm truly sorry you have had to experience the life-long feelings that result from this.
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This made me cry a bit. I HATE hearing about leaving someone behind. I too was told while in the army you NEVER leave anyone behind. And most soldiers that knew would not do that. But it happens and it sad. I know someone who knows how it feels like to be left. It happened to him in Baghdad in 2004. He knows how they felt. He made it back to my base and all is well, we'll sort of.
People who do this deserve being shot.
People who do this deserve being shot.
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I knew that as the choppers were trying to evac us under fire there was confusion on who was there and who wasn't....it was a mass (you know what) and it wasn't until later when the head count was done and later the names where gathered from other bases where other Marines ended up that it was recognized how messed up it was. I used this in my career to make sure all the men in my squad/units where never forgotten or left behind. I shudder to think how much more todays men and women suffer from being deployed for multiple combat tours....I pray for them everyday.
I also never forget how Obama and Hillary killed those 4 men in Benghazi.... that troubles me greatly but it doesn't seem to affect Obama's golf swing or Hillary's money laundering.
I also never forget how Obama and Hillary killed those 4 men in Benghazi.... that troubles me greatly but it doesn't seem to affect Obama's golf swing or Hillary's money laundering.
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I have to weigh in and say, SFC Higgins you are living proof that combat experience saves lives. As bad as it may be, the fact that you lived through what you did and passed the lessons learned on to your men means other lives may have been saved because of your experience. Like your 3 Tour Sergeant did for you, you did for others. It may not take away the sting of what happened on Koh Tang, but at least others are alive because of what you learned there.
Sadly, our nation has to pay a steep tuition in blood for every war we've ever fought. But to everyone who has ever faced combat, you are our most priceless resource, for your experience can and will save lives in future fights.
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Not to be political here but I can't understand how any veteran could vote for either one of them. Neither have shown any respect for those who are serving or have served.
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Not to be political here, but I can't understand the perspective of not voting for either one. While I do not agree with all of the positions of Trump, I don't agree with any of the positions of Hillary. Staying at home and not casting a vote is the same as voting for Hillary. One of them will be elected and I certainly don't want it to be Hillary.
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I hope the politicians are met at the Pearly Gates by the men they killed and given an escort down to where the cowardly politicians belong.
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I was in S.E.A during '70 to '72. I remember a F4 from another base had stopped over for repairs. Someone had painted and small picture of a man captured with words written below saying please get our P.O.Ws out !
That image has haunted me to this day.
I know in my heart that hundreds of P.O.Ws were left behind and it was covered up.
It continues as Hilary left Stevens and the three others behind to die.
God help America if she gets elected.
That image has haunted me to this day.
I know in my heart that hundreds of P.O.Ws were left behind and it was covered up.
It continues as Hilary left Stevens and the three others behind to die.
God help America if she gets elected.
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Your post brings to mind the near death bed confession by McNamara that the entire Vietnam War was a mistake and that rather than being a facilitator he should have spoken out against it. It is unfortunate that our nation is often led by incompetent fools, and they never pay any price for what they did.
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I couldn't agree more. We just don't seem to get great candidates anymore.
I will hold my nose as I vote for Trump.
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