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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ive used the shim only method and the weld method. Im wondering if anyone has ever just tried using JB Weld to do this..?

I was in my basement match upgrading a ferrule last night and was staring at a tubes of JB Weld and a cylinder and front band sitting there and, well... light bulbs....?
 

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JB Weld is not as tough, heat and shock resistant and long lasting as Hysol Epoxy Patch glue and even that is not strong enough to unitize a gas cylinder in my opinion. I prefer welded cylinders and glue the handguards with epoxy patch plus use the correct size shims for each rifle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
JB Weld is not as tough, heat and shock resistant and long lasting as Hysol Epoxy Patch glue and even that is not strong enough to unitize a gas cylinder in my opinion. I prefer welded cylinders and glue the handguards with epoxy patch plus use the correct size shims for each rifle.
Roger that! Just a thought...
 

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Thanks for asking. I was working on one of my rifles last night, looked at the tubes of JB Weld in my chemicals box and had the same thought.

Too bad. GI4
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Thanks for asking. I was working on one of my rifles last night, looked at the tubes of JB Weld in my chemicals box and had the same thought.

Too bad. GI4
Im still considering testing it along with shims. If it works, it works, if not, then oh well...

Really, shims are all you need. My shimmed gun works great. Its just when you take it apart that its back in pieces. I figured JB weld would just add a little insurance....

Its tough to "just" shim a cylinder and band, cause its hard to get the front band right where you want it when putting it together. I figured the JB Weld would be like an extra hand....

I hate to admit it, but I have a distaste for applying the kind of heat welding creates to a cylinder. Ive had it done, and it worked, but I just dont like the idea of it. Im opting out of the screw method. I dont like when all the parts that should be working parts dont work (i.e. gas valve), and dont want to neuter a really nice cylinder....
 

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I've used JB up there. It'll get a shooter through a match or two before it comes loose. There's just not enough surface between the g/c and the band to apply enough epoxy to get much purchase.

If you're going to shim, though, I think a dab of JB or other high-temp epoxy behind, between, and in front of the shims could keep them tighter longer once the squeeze is applied. It works well other places where the parts are mated, like the M14's op rod guide on the barrel and the Garand's front band.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
bd111 - You are right about surface. Very little indeed. My shimmed (only) gun has held up well for about 1200 rounds as far as accuracy. The front band is still "locked" but whether it has moved (not that it can move very far) I dont know. It does not rattle around and thats what I care about mostly. Seems like shims plus some JB Weld would work nicely. Like I mentioned, I had a gun with the front band welded and just dont grove to it. I know a guy who can do it, and do it well, but would rather not if I can help it... I definitely dont want exposed welds (which I had) and cant fathom two welds in the inside after drilling the front band are any less prone to cracking.

Thanks for the comment though. Interesting information...
 

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Ive used the shim only method and the weld method. Im wondering if anyone has ever just tried using JB Weld to do this..?...
I've tried that on a Scout that already had a good lockup without shims. After a couple of hundred rounds, it still hasn't come loose. As has been mentioned, there isn't a lot of contact area, so first, I cleaned and roughened that area and a bit around it, then laid on a good bit of JB Weld (the long setting kind) and let it squish around the edges to reinforce the area; not pretty but more secure. Of course, that meant the epoxy would also ooze into the hole the barrel would go through. The solution to that was to drink a can of ale, cut a strip of the can and roll it into a tube, then slide it through the front band and gas cylinder and let it unwind to act as a dam.

I wouldn't bet my life on this fix but JB Weld is pretty tough stuff. I doubt, though, whether it would hold if the lockup wasn't already tight.
 

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...The front band is still "locked" but whether it has moved (not that it can move very far) I dont know...
That's an excellent observation. I substituted a USGI front band for the SAI front band on the Scout mentioned above. The lip on the USGI band is wider than the SAI band, which means it has a more pronounced "cup" for the ferrule to fit into. Pushing the ferrule sideways with the tight SAI band, the band stayed put. Doing the same thing with the USGI band, clamped just as tight, I could see the front band following the ferrule sideways. But the fit was still tight enough that the front band didn't seem to return to quite the same place at rest. If you prefer tension on the barrel, I'm sure that could screw up accuracy.

I switched to SAI's M25 unitized GC and had a terrible time trying to get it on (something I remember other forum members experiencing too). And when I discovered the "D" hole for the piston tail was crooked, off it came, on went the original GC, and that's where the JB Weld came in.
 

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J B Weld

The manner in which you intend to use the rifle plays a role in rather to rely on JB to hold thing together. Gus, ** I assume** speaks from a standpoint of across the course use, the rifle heats up and JB may not be the best choice.

Shooting across the bench or non rapid fire in some other way, JB should do a good job. I have not had a problem with over 500 rounds off the bench using JB, this is slow fire however.

One thing is certain, it will not hurt anything, and it may improve things. Art
 

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The manner in which you intend to use the rifle plays a role in rather to rely on JB to hold thing together...
Shooting across the bench or non rapid fire in some other way, JB should do a good job...
Thanks, Art. That explains why my JB fix has been holding up. Another consideration is that the JB Weld that takes 4-6 hours before even handling is good to 600 degrees while I believe the JB Weld Kwik isn't, and the long setting stuff is what I used.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
The manner in which you intend to use the rifle plays a role in rather to rely on JB to hold thing together. Gus, ** I assume** speaks from a standpoint of across the course use, the rifle heats up and JB may not be the best choice.

Shooting across the bench or non rapid fire in some other way, JB should do a good job. I have not had a problem with over 500 rounds off the bench using JB, this is slow fire however.

One thing is certain, it will not hurt anything, and it may improve things. Art
Good point Art. JB is supposed to be good to 500 F. I cant imagine the heat getting that high in 10 rounds of rapid fire...not the where the cylinder and band mate anyway. Do you think? Even if it does, the shims will still be in place....

Maybe even go with something like Hysol like Gus mentioned...

I shoot XTC, though Im an AR driver these days. I still like building 14s for XTC use or "best accuracy", in any case....

I think the only match I will ever compete in with a 14 these days is the NRA/Springfield Match at Perry. That's a fun match and enjoyed it the year I shot it. In the winter I shoot a monthly Sunday Service Rifle match with 14's to relive the good old days of Highpower, but it is mostly a club fun match. Its cold out anyway, so I definitely don't think things are getting that hot.

In any case, my 14's dont see the kind of use they once did, which was heavy at one point....

If I do it. Ill post some results of my findings.
 

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JB Weld

Good point Art. JB is supposed to be good to 500 F. I cant imagine the heat getting that high in 10 rounds of rapid fire...not the where the cylinder and band mate anyway. Do you think? Even if it does, the shims will still be in place....

Maybe even go with something like Hysol like Gus mentioned...

I shoot XTC, though Im an AR driver these days. I still like building 14s for XTC use or "best accuracy", in any case....

I think the only match I will ever compete in with a 14 these days is the NRA/Springfield Match at Perry. That's a fun match and enjoyed it the year I shot it. In the winter I shoot a monthly Sunday Service Rifle match with 14's to relive the good old days of Highpower, but it is mostly a club fun match. Its cold out anyway, so I definitely don't think things are getting that hot.

In any case, my 14's dont see the kind of use they once did, which was heavy at one point....

If I do it. Ill post some results of my findings.
The Kwick JB is worthless in my opinion. No, I don't think 10 rounds would put out enough heat, but the repeated heating in even 10 rds. may cause problems, the shock may be more of a factor give the small purchase area for JB.

The shims hold the band secure in most cases of rec. shooting. It was interesting years ago to see how many SS shims cracked, and in some case fell out, I changed to brass shims many years ago and have not had any problems since. The brass, being softer, does not set the barrel shoulder back with repeated tightening nor does it make a reference mark useless if setback occurs. Also, I think the softer brass results in a less stretching of the Threads on the Plug, which we remove often for Service. These are just " I Thing" items, but they have proved successful here. Art
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I agree on the Kwik JB, and yes, I too think the shock would likely pull it apart before the heat...

Its been interesting hearing some insights on this though...

I probably will just get the thing welded...

Thanks All!
 
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