M14 Forum banner

41 - 50 of 50 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
528 Posts
We can't have it both ways. There seem to be conflicting opinions about the extent that law enforcement should step-in.

With the events that were happening in my area recently, I think law enforcement was too soft - under orders from the Mayor - deescalate...deescalate...deescalate...

Once the looting and burning starts it's Game On as far as I'm concerned.

I'd want riot gear and body shields if I were standing there getting stuff thrown at me - and couldn't do much about it - wouldn't you?

I don't think police are over-reaching or showing racial bias in my area. Politicians on the other hand...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
72 Posts
"Limited policing only works if individuals police themselves."

You said a mouthful. I'm an old man whose life was spent distrustful of police. To self-police there has got to be some sort of moral compass at work. We, as a society, do not have that anymore. Anything goes, however ridiculous.

Power, even that of a cop on a beat, is corrupting. It invites abuse. Look at prosecutors. Politicians. Who would be dumb enough to . . . ? Anybody whose judgment was clouded by the "I'm special" mentality.

I don't want less police any more than I want fewer garbage trucks. We have to have them to maintain order.

Another point to keep in mind is that police are charged with "making cases." It's not enough to arrest a bad guy. There has got to be a conviction -- or an arguable case -- or YOU are the one in trouble. There are bad people who require special attention -- as a public safety question. IMO Mr. Floyd was one of them. A long and rich criminal history, loaded on dope, not afraid to mix it up with a guy in uniform and possibly known to the officer (as a bouncer at a night club).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,039 Posts
Discussion Starter #43
"
I don't want less police any more than I want fewer garbage trucks. We have to have them to maintain order..
Hi,
LOL!

There it is!

I want nothing to do with Cops or the IRS, been there, done that, and a "little" was enough!

I think most here on this Forum can say...

Well....It goes where it goes, but the BS stops, at my front door...

That's the way, I'm looking at it anyway!USN5
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
913 Posts
I get the frustration people have, but yelling incessantly until you have everyone kneeling to a mob and all the humble-brag and virtue signaling by every organization 'standing with... <whomever is convenient these days>' is cowardice, and in most cases, pure opportunism. Kneeling will not save anyone. Apologizing for your race or for things you did not do is not strength or compassion. The people who are kneeling to you (if you are the one yelling) in 'solidarity' are not going to help you and do not care - they are merely hoping you leave them alone and that you will consider them some kind of 'ally'.

People were yelling "We are on your side" from inside their stores, while people still threw rocks through the windows and stole all their stuff. It does not help, and I wish people would stop doing it. They're embarrassing themselves and they are emboldening the mob. Even record-time arrest of the cops involved in the Floyd debacle doesn't seem to have satisfied anyone, which (to me) proves it's all unrelated to any of that.

I have worked in companies where small hate-mobs can upend the social order and shriek to get what they want. This happens because managers cow-tow to them in some vain hope of 'showing understanding' or opportunistically branding themselves as a leader in the 'reform'. It invariably leads to knee-jerk bad policies and, as we've seen, bad policies are difficult to remove, just like poor city management statutes, all the way on up to state and federal laws.

People can talk all they want about police reform, but that starts with the mayors and city council who determine their budgets and their policies. Police chiefs are political figures. If they are letting things go that they shouldn't (abuse, corruption, etc.) then hold not only them, but the mayors accountable. I realize that's what the mob thinks they are doing, but it remains to be seen if defunding your police force will get you what you actually want. They will decry all the people and businesses who decide to leave. It's a never-ending cycle of degradation, with circular logic employed to shift blame for all ills, real and perceived, continually.

As we've often seen in revolutions, the revolutionaries often eat their own. No one is pure enough, eventually. There is always a Robespierre in every screaming mob, ready to extract their pound of flesh, and guess what happened to him? We don't want the French Revolution, but that's the style we are seeing right now. Equal opportunity, an American ideal, is not what they had in France, and it is not what people are clamoring for right now. They want the French equality of outcome, and we will all continue to suffer as we walk, like Sisyphus, up a hill never getting anywhere on a fool's errand. People will never be 'equal' in that way, because true success is better measured in obstacles overcome (per Booker T. Washington), and that comes from an individual, and as we know, all individuals are unique in traits, capabilities, desires, motivations and starting points. Why would we think the same ending point for everyone is even possible?

As to what happens when there is no enforcement, no understanding of consequences (whether from state, county or city authority... or a citizen) ... look at San Francisco's property theft rules where there is no prosecution if under $1000. What happens? People carry calculators around to figure out how to stay under that. No bail now? Great idea? No problems, right? People will test any/all limits.

For those that say the rioters aren't trained, I don't know and it doesn't much matter to me. However, they are well funded and highly organized. How else do you think you get rioters in remote places like North Dakota? They drove from Spokane straight east. This is not some organic movement. The random protester who is carrying a sign seems like they just want to go have their say, their vigil, etc... whether it be from misguided notions or the pinnacle of profound insight. The other guys... they are going to places they do not live and have no skin in the game in the areas in which they sow the seeds of destruction.

We are in the ascendant age of the cult of wokeness and living in clown world. As always, God is testing us... and we have been weighed in the balances and been found wanting.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
There is no doubt that the police have a tough job, they have to deal with the worst in the streets but that's What they signed up for . And we all at one time or another have run into the kid who got slapped around in school and now wears a badge and enjoys power trippin, making you bow down in his pressence. They are the bad cops and they are the ones causing the good cops all this grief. When the good cops finally stand up together against the bad illones this crap will end . POlice your own . When this happens the public Will be more willing to help . POLICE YOUR OWN. And this goes for the protesters too
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,282 Posts
I think most members here can understand the danger of a 'Police State'.

The Second Amendment is part of the Bill of Rights, is a Civil Right, and the strength and effectiveness of it depends not just only on the exercising of the specific right, but the strength of the sanctity of Civil Rights as a whole, and a widespread cultural understanding of why respecting all Civil Rights and the legal process of upholding them, or even changing them, is important, and that is a non-partisan interest. It is also, if all parties could see it, a potential bridge to heal up the current insanity.

Like in many issues, it isn't a simple all or nothing, good or bad, but a matter of the details of how things are done, and why.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Hi,
I am seeing more and more Americans standing up along with the LEO's in their neighborhood...

With their AR-15's and side arms protecting against the looting and burning.

I can't help but wonder if maybe some good will come out of this and wake up some fence sitters on our 2A Rights???

Of course the MSN tries to make it into something bad but from the skyrocketing sales of ANY firearm the Public is not buying it?

Just wondering if this might turn out to be a good thing looking back in the rear view mirror???USN5
Anything that normalizes citizens armed alongside law enforcement is a good thing in my book.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
I don't think it will be that simple. I think people are just generally sick of the status quo and are looking for other options. Who is that hardcore crim you're talking about? And if you don't call 911 then what are you worried about? Open season on citizens? What kind of mad max wild west sheriff fantasy are we trying to perpetuate here? I don't know but I've been everywhere in this country and I've met some messed up people, bottom to top, but the kind of psycho, born and bred criminal that is portrayed by the media and the politicians rarely exists. They're mostly Transports. I've been mugged and defended my life, I've fought desperate men. I've kicked and screamed in the mud and the blood and the beer. Its horrible out there. But the bad guy? It's a Phantasm.

And we don't call for help either unless there's a real medical need. Because what good is an authority that causes more damage.

For anybody that has been effected by crime in a serious way, I just want to say that I am sorry. I don't believe that you should go undefended.
Now that is some pretty TALL talking there. I would think maybe a stopover at the Thirsty Bird in N.St. Louis in the evening hours when the locusts are awake may change your mind.

Have you had a 14 year old point a .45 at your head from 6 feet away? What would you do if he or she had the Drop?

And being sorry for someone that can not defend themselves is useless talk also. That helps allot being sorry. "I am sorry little old lady that you did not defend yourself".
 

·
Premium Member
Honorary Forum Lifer
Joined
·
16,056 Posts
We need a strong police presence, but actions that kill people regardless of "guilt" need to be done away with like enforcing red flag laws and no knock warrants, those are just absolute BS and have no place in a "civilized" society. The cops can apprehend anyone in question when they are in town at the store or post office, not sleeping in their bed where we are supposed to be "secure in your persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures". I think it's pretty unreasonable to get barged in upon at 4am by an armed squad that the homeowner doesn't know is the cops and be shot in your own bed or be forced to defend yourself and shoot against you don't know who when you're half asleep and possibly on medications that make things really foggy like sleeping pills, etc. Should NEVER happen to Americans.

In fact "white" gun owners are the main victims of this and many are killed over weak and false accusations, or minor statutory crimes of wood and steel being too short or too long or a device that holds too many pieces. It's just disgusting to me as an American. Gun owners' lives matter.
m14brian
 
41 - 50 of 50 Posts
Top