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I don't understand this at all. I WANT the VA to check to assure there will be no negative effects of drug interaction that could harm me. To insist this is a privacy issue at the expense of the veteran's health or life makes no sense to me. You cannot argue the point if you are DEAD!
However, my word is still golden, or at least it used to be. Isn't it still standard procedure to fill out questionnaires and answer medical related questions truthfully. If I lie to the Dr. and/or other medical staff who are evaluating me, and they RX medicine that conflicts with illicit drugs that I may or may not be taking, isn't that is on me if I lie to them? And if I do, it's well documented in my medical chart complete with my signature, so it's not on them. In addition, it is not standard medical practice in the civilian world to run drug tests in secret on people when there is no indication of such use or abuse. How do you know that this was not another sneaky underhanded scheme by the last administration to gather yet more reasons to deny a vet of their 2nd amendment rights. Personally, I smell a rat, and a big one. Hopefully Sec. Shulken will square this kind of crap away, and quick. I don't understand why so many are so quick and willing to give up their due process rights these days. There are many reasons where I have signed a condition of employment agreement, taken an oath or understood and acknowledged conditions of enlistment. I agreed to those terms and would never have a problem with being tested if it was required for the above reasons. However, in my separated retired life I am afforded all of my due process rights before being subjected to illegal and criminal searches of "ANYTHING".
 

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If they insist on checking you for "criminal" use of drugs, they are violating your rights:

First, by testing, they are assuming that you are criminal. If not, why test? Presumption of innocence is a right.

They are also violating your right against self incrimination.

Then there is the illegal search and seizure problem.

They should be investigated for conspiring to violate the rights of vets. RICO has long arms. Conspiracy to violate rights is a serious charge.
 

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If the VA is prescribing a drug to treat a veteran and if that veteran is using illegal drugs that have a negative interaction with the prescribed drugs that would be harmful to the veteran, then what should any medical professional do? Should the VA act in the best interest of the veteran or should the VA permit the veteran to be harmed because of the negative drug interaction? Is privacy the primary issue or is patient health and safety the primary issue? It would seem to me the VA is protecting the veteran from himself in this instance.
They use it to deny vets coverage on needed procedures. They arent just looking out for the vets best interest. If you believe what they are saying then you are just like the rest of the flock. Dont you know by now that health care providers at the va are just trying to lessen up the work load?
 

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They use it to deny vets coverage on needed procedures. They arent just looking out for the vets best interest. If you believe what they are saying then you are just like the rest of the flock. Dont you know by now that health care providers at the va are just trying to lessen up the work load?

Ummm gee wiz is that really what you believe? Is the V.A. administered by the civilian authorities or the military?
 

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Freedom must come first- always. Period. Ending.

Anyone arguing that it's ok to take someone else's personal property (literally- in this case actual corporeal biological samples of another human being) and interrogate them as they see fit, for whatever ends they so choose, sharing that information with whomever they want, without first informing the property owner exactly what they are going to do with the property and receiving direct permission to do so beforehand- cannot fully understand what freedom truly is.

I am honestly floored to see comments here that seem to reflect either a soberingly gross misconception about the foundational principles of our Constitutional Republic, or possibly that the powers that be have been successful in indoctrinating people into accepting that somehow ends can actually justify means.

Either is conclusively unacceptable. It's actually kinda frightening to read such sentiments. This is dead serious stuff here, folks.
 

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Not related to VA procedures, but the wife gets drug tested by her doctor every six months.

The test is to make sure she is actually taking the prescribed drug and not selling it on the black market.

The 60 pills she gets each month that we pay $40 for could be sold for $850 on the black market.

And yes I have tried, but she won't give up any of them.
 

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I don’t know what the absolute right answer would be. Problem is there usually isn’t an absolute correct answer to anything. I’m 37 and collect VA disability for wounds sustained in Afghanistan, I try to be a model citizen in this country by doing the right thing so it doesn’t bother me if they are testing for drugs because they won’t find any in my system. I however, know other vets in my age group that have overdosed and died and if even one of them coulda been saved by some sort of intervention, I would think it’s worth it. I get both sides of the argument that I’m reading here but my gut tells me most of us don’t see this as the worst possible thing to be discussing. My mother died when I was 17 and I went down the drug road to cope with the pain and the best thing to happen to me was my family finding out. I cleaned up, got my life together and now I am a successful family man that my mother would be proud of. I don’t know what the best answer is here but we all have unique perspectives on weather it’s the right thing to do, or wrong.
 

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I believe that anyone, including vets, that get a check or services from the government SHOULD be subject to drug screenings.
I know I'm going to upset a lot of people here but this is just stupid. We aren't getting some kind of free money, we are being REPAID for our service that caused injury to us, I don't owe anybody anything for my disability monies and I certainly don't need to ask you for permission in the form of being tested every month to prove to you or anybody else that I meet your personal standards.
 

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I know I'm going to upset a lot of people here but this is just stupid. We aren't getting some kind of free money, we are being REPAID for our service that caused injury to us, I don't owe anybody anything for my disability monies and I certainly don't need to ask you for permission in the form of being tested every month to prove to you or anybody else that I meet your personal standards.
How would you think you would upset anyone? We are all " entitled " to our opinions. Threads like this are wonderful spaces to present those opinions. All being equal , it's nice to see what others are thinking. I have met some at the VA clinics in the waiting area that are just leaches. Had some ask me to try and get pain killers for them. Those are the ones I think just need a nice strong dose of fentnyl.
 

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By COLLIN BREAUX
News Herald Reporter
Posted at 8:00 AM

“They have a right to do a urinalysis; it’s the drug test that’s a search of your person,” veteran Robert Williams said. “Just because they have a sample or tissue of mine does not mean they have a right to test it.”

PANAMA CITY BEACH – When Robert Williams asked for his lab work after a recent VA appointment, he was just curious about his cholesterol. What he discovered instead were the results of an undisclosed drug screening, leading the Navy veteran to protest what he considers a privacy infringement.

Williams, of Mexico Beach, went to the Panama City Beach clinic for a regularly scheduled appointment in April. That’s when he saw the drug screening.

“My first reaction was, ‘That’s kind of odd,’ ” he said.

And Williams isn’t the only one who found it odd, because while the VA’s regional provider said the test does not require consent, a national VA representative and a representative from Sen. Marco Rubio’s office both said the tests are not part of the VA’s policy and aren’t to be given without the consent of the patient.
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Drug Test results 1

Williams provided The News Herald with a copy of his screening, which tested negative for cocaine and opiates, among other drugs. But he wasn’t concerned about the results – Williams is adamantly opposed to using drugs – but with why the testing was done at all and how many others are being tested unknowingly, calling the screening an infringement of Fourth Amendment rights.

“I don’t think anybody can defend this as the way that our resources ought to be used and what they ought to be doing,” he said. “It’s an invasion of my privacy. ... I don’t have a problem with employers doing it as a function of your employment, but I absolutely have a problem with a government agency like VA testing us with no probable cause, with no medical necessity, with no indication that there is any kind of abuse situation going on.”

The VA defended its drug testing when contacted by The News Herald. A representative of the Gulf Coast Veterans Health Care System (GCVHCS), the health agency’s regional provider, said the VA – like other medical practitioners – may order a test of a veteran’s urine, saliva and blood because the agency is required to monitor veterans’ prescriptions of controlled substances such as amphetamines, opioids and benzodiazepines.

“This is not an invasion of privacy,” GCVHCS spokesman Jerron Barnett wrote in a prepared statement. “This test does not require consent from the veteran, but the veteran is free to do the test or not. ... If there is proof a veteran isn’t taking his/her controlled substances responsibly, or doesn’t allow the provider to monitor the effectiveness of the medication(s) prescribed, the provider may stop the veteran’s prescription.”

Williams, however, said he takes only one prescription, for testosterone – not one of the controlled substances the VA is required to monitor.

“They have a right to do a urinalysis; it’s the drug test that’s a search of your person,” he said. “Just because they have a sample or tissue of mine does not mean they have a right to test it.”

Getting consent

The VA itself has given contradictory statements on whether discrete drug testing is allowed.

While the GCVHCS maintained the VA has a right to drug test any veteran, a national representative gave a different answer. In an email to The News Herald, Veterans Health Administration (VHA) Office of Communications spokeswoman Michele Hammonds said GCVHCS’ statement was inaccurate, instead saying VA patients have the right to accept or refuse any medical treatment or procedure recommended to them.

“Information about certain tests such as drug screens are particularly sensitive and may have consequences that the patient might reasonably want to avoid,” Hammonds wrote. “For these tests, providers must obtain specific oral consent and document it in the patient’s record.”

A representative of Rubio’s office also indicated the screens are not part of VA policy. In an email to Williams, Rubio’s Senior Constituent Services Representative Terri Finger wrote, ”... regarding the VA instituting drug-testing at veterans’ annual physicals ... I checked with the VA GCVHCS Congressional Liaison at VAMC Biloxi and was told there is no such policy.”

However, Jim Strickland, a Vietnam-era veteran, VA watchdog and retired health care professional, said there is nothing illegal, immoral or underhanded about a VA physician drug testing veterans.

“Why would anyone tell (a veteran) beforehand?” asked Strickland, who lives north of Jacksonville. “It’s a clinical lab test. Why would he be offended if he got screened for drugs? It’s health care.”

Strickland sees the issue from many angles. In addition to his military and health care background, he sits on the advisory board for StatesideLegal.org, a website that helps veterans with legal advice and accessing benefits, and has written an advice column for them over the years. He also runs the website VAwatchdog.org.

“Doctors try to treat drug abuse as a health care problem,” he said. “If they don’t know what your status is, they can’t treat you.”

But Williams isn’t convinced.

“The real question is who authorized this?” he said. “Whose idea was it? And who told (my doctor) his patients had to be drug-screened?”

He said the VA’s inconsistent responses are in line with many issues plaguing the agency.

“That’s the thing about VA; they have deniability,” Williams said. “Everything about their process is built with an opaque protection for the people so you’ll never get to the bottom of this, whose decision this is.”

Test results

Along with questions over whether undisclosed drug tests are legal are questions about what the VA is doing with the test results.

GCVHCS’ Barnett said in addition to checking for possible prescription drug interactions, “VA maintains substance abuse programs to help veterans with drug addiction and/or abuse, should that be necessary.”

However, he also said “a veteran won’t be denied VA health care benefits if he or she is eligible for those benefits because of drug use.”

Strickland agreed, saying in his experience veterans most often are afraid a positive drug test will cause a loss in VA disability benefits – which might be their only income – but he advised veterans not to panic.

“No one loses VA disability benefits because they’re smoking pot,” he said. “The worst thing they will say is they won’t prescribe any more narcotic pain medication if you’re smoking pot or doing cocaine.”

However, Williams said VA’s insistence that they do not punish veterans for drug use doesn’t justify the testing.

“We don’t know if they’re using this for hierarchy of transplant lists or what they’re using it for. But what they’re not doing with it is helping me,” he said. “If you’re gonna test, test for something that could benefit me, like what the Red Cross tests for. It’s gonna break someone’s heart to find out they have HIV or syphilis, but at least it will benefit them to know.”

Awareness

Williams isn’t interested in becoming the poster child for a battle against the VA, and he doesn’t want anyone to be punished. What he wants is accountability – and awareness.

“Here’s what VA needs to do,” he said. “First, stop doing this. Second, figure out how it happened, and third, fix it.”

He has reached out to several local representatives for help stopping the practice. Though representatives of Rubio and Rep. Neal Dunn did respond – “No veteran should be screened for drugs without their prior consent, which is the current national policy at the VA,” Dunn said through a spokeswoman – Williams does not anticipate any action.

“Even when you try to use their constituent help program, they make a milquetoast inquiry and accept the VA’s response,” Williams said. “Every one of us fights VA by ourselves. Every one, bar none.”

So until the discrepancy is addressed, Williams will settle for awareness.

“Every vet that goes to that place and is going to have a urinalysis needs to know this is happening,” he said. “We shouldn’t wait until the first person gets damaged by it – we should stop it now.”

Strickland agreed, saying the VA should be upfront by creating a policy about drug screening so veterans aren’t avoiding health care and the agency doesn’t waste taxpayer dollars.

“It’s a sensitive issue, and veterans have a right to know what to expect,” he said. “If drug screens are there for every vet, we need to see the policy. Otherwise, VA should be more transparent so that vets aren’t in fear of seeking health care.”
How would you expect a doctor to evaluate, and treat a patient without a baseline of blood makeup, hormones, organ function, or chemicals on board? The next new prescription, refill of a prescription could kill the patient.

Rather than a search, you might be looking at the urine being volunteered, or abandoned property.

Constitution of United States of America 1789 (rev. 1992)

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
 
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