M14 Forum banner
81 - 100 of 107 Posts

Premium Member
Joined
20,855 Posts
Not a problem - all liberal states and cities - will hand you a HS diploma even if you cannot read or write...according to the Teachers' Union in name of equity. It is 'acting white' and racist if you can do math or read or write. Tupac is light skin compared to me. So I must be white. 馃榿
Had plenty of applicants with high school diplomas come looking for a job over the years that couldn't read well enough to fill out their own job application. Then, most of the ones that could fill out the application, without help, had second thoughts when they got to the part that said an apprentice program was a requirement of employment. This is not the land of entitlement " yet ".
 

Registered
Joined
1,501 Posts
If a child is not reading and writing by 3rd grade, that is trouble very hard to fix. As a father of two, that was my ultimate nightmare if my kids fail to read and write. Both my kids were reading by age 3-4 yrs. They can read the entire newspaper out loud as I listened so I can see if they stumble on words and I can make corrections. I used to make jokes about taking them to the orphanage if they did not learn to read by age 6. 馃榿

I used to teach the entire chess club for elementary and middle schools where i lived. You have to be minimum B-student to join the chess club. No C-grade at all. There were few kids I had to teach to read after school and got on the chess club. I was ever so proud of them. And their parents were so happy. The majority of the chess club are the usual honor-rolls. Both my kids were the top players. And they were also the youngest.

I don't believe there are poor learning students. There are only poor teachers. They just do not know how to teach is all.
 

Registered
Joined
51 Posts
I don't understand this at all - so the enemies up in the mountains are using old worn AK47s...and we cannot engage w/ newer weapons? and at 300 yards? For petesakes - 300 yards is the sitting position w/ iron sights. We shoot the 200 yards offhand -

And every Dick and Sally has scoped rifles and cannot engage? What kind of rifle marksmanship have they been thru?

Someone explain this to me -
I agree with you and the stupidest thing I have read in a long time is that shooting up hill is harder then down hill and that it changes the range...Both uphill and down hill require that we are trained to be aware of the optical illusions of both. I was trained by the Marine Core to recognize the difference and to compensate for it.
 

Registered
Joined
1,501 Posts
Hey - there is an idea: make the rifle marksmanship all uphill? 馃榿 But I do not believe for a second our riflemen cannot tell uphill versus downhill.

Did the recruiting requirement set too low a rock can pass? Come on, man! (Biden-style).
 
  • Like
Reactions: nf1e

Registered
Joined
151 Posts
I dunno. I thot the same thing but we鈥檙e no longer sending a million soldiers to the front. It鈥檚 small, specialized groups.

Crazy expensive weapons systems make sense for your elite. But standard issue? I agree. Probably not.

Here鈥檚 an M4. Guard this warehouse. Don鈥檛 shoot any friendlies.
The Army can never make up its mind. The rifle/ammo is either to heavy or is lacking in effectiveness. Maybe you need to train the troops better and stop looking for an equipment fix.
 

Registered
Joined
10,587 Posts
I agree with you and the stupidest thing I have read in a long time is that shooting up hill is harder then down hill and that it changes the range...Both uphill and down hill require that we are trained to be aware of the optical illusions of both. I was trained by the Marine Core to recognize the difference and to compensate for it.
Well now that says a lot about your lack of experience. It is physically more difficult to aim for an uphill shot versus a downhill shot and it's more difficult to see a bad guy hiding on the crest of a mountain than it is to see guys hiding among cover below you. Kinda why military strategists teach that the high ground gives you an advantage in battle.

And it's spelled "Corps" not Core, reminds me of Obama not knowing the difference between a Navy Corpsman and a corpse man.
 

Registered
Joined
224 Posts
Wait a minute now. No high school diploma needed to become a protector of the Constitution and defender of all that is good. I left high school in 1966 to become a Marine. Only thing my family talked about was the need to fight the commies and other bad guys on their turf and keep us free like we had been doing for generations. Did manage to become an Avionics tech after graduation from Navy electronics school. Got my GED in Vietnam in 1968 which allowed me to complete my education and go on up the ladder. Wised up and became a civilian after doing my part. Life is good.

Viva America
Sad but apples and oranges. 50 years ago an 8th grade graduate could read and write. Today, many high school graduates cannot. You really have to work hard not have a high school diploma.
 

Registered
Joined
5,531 Posts
Howdy Nez. Of course there are exceptions to every rule and you are for sure and certain an exception to most rules.
Just having fun, my friend.

The reality, for the most part that is so true, most USAF guys not specialty where they will carry weapons, can't shoot. With the 81st Forward Air Control Post, we have to qualify with the M16 on a regular basis. I've seen some guys shoot some terrible scores at 100 yards on eSilhouette.
 

Registered
Joined
5,531 Posts
What is the barrel life with this new cartridge?
I will find out once my reamer comes it. I know the guy who chambered the barrels (10) for testing at Aberdeen. He also did some testing himself in different config. 6, 6.5, and 7x51 with the Hybrid case.

I know whats needs to be modified in a 700 SA to handle the 80K with the right powder.

For my own, I will stick with the SAAMI spec cartridge.

Cosmetics Cylinder Bullet Ammunition Gun accessory
Finger Wood Household hardware Auto part Metal
 

Registered
Joined
6,237 Posts
Had plenty of applicants with high school diplomas come looking for a job over the years that couldn't read well enough to fill out their own job application. Then, most of the ones that could fill out the application, without help, had second thoughts when they got to the part that said an apprentice program was a requirement of employment. This is not the land of entitlement " yet ".
It is a weird thing to witness. Certainly not true of all younger people these days. I know a kid who after graduating high school got a job at a hardware store that turned into a contact and then a job as a plumber's apprentice. Physical work for sure when you're the 'go for' guy, lots of ditch digging, but he loves it, and is focusing on getting all the work he can and piling away cash to retire as early as possible. Probably not coincidentally his dad had a long career with tree work, and his parents have long been consistent proponents of a strong work ethic and positive attitude in all things, which also served him well in high school wrestling.

But the majority of cases through conversation, both with employers and job seekers, it seems like either the expectations were born in fantasy in that they think employers should be grateful to have anybody, and should contort themselves to for the honor, or the don't actually want a job that involves work.
 

Registered
Joined
379 Posts
The U.S. military always seems to fight the last war.

In this case some things are conveniently dropped from the conversation. Let's review:

The bad guys in Afghanistan mainly used AK's, like our guys mainly use M4's. Some members of the enemy units carried PKM GPMG's, just like some member of our units carried M240 GPMG's. In long range gunfights the AK's aren't hitting any better or more accurately than our M4's. It becomes a duel between GPMG's. So some of their guys are in a deadly pissing contest with some of our guys. The rest are popping off with their AK's and M4's respectively and maybe trying to make the other ones duck if nothing else. Hell, maybe even get a lucky hit now and then.

So now we are embarking on a venture to replace the M4's with this new weapon/caliber combo so all the guys on our side can shoot relatively effectively at those PKM's (the AK's haven't been improved). Not an entirely bad idea if you are fighting Afghans in Afghanistan. Of course one of the stated roles is penetrating a modern adversary's body armor, again at distance but that wouldn't necessarily apply to Afghanistan.

Now the weapon itself is almost 2lbs heavier than the M4, and then add in the suppressor and it's pushing the better part of 4lbs heavier. God knows how much that "flattop laptop" they call a sight is gonna add.
 

Registered
M1A SOCOM 16
Joined
55 Posts
I agree with you and the stupidest thing I have read in a long time is that shooting up hill is harder then down hill and that it changes the range...Both uphill and down hill require that we are trained to be aware of the optical illusions of both. I was trained by the Marine Core to recognize the difference and to compensate for it.
Ok, maybe I just flunked basic science but don鈥檛 both gravity and air density affect bullet trajectory? And there are is the concept of defilade fire. Many might mock me for referring to a movie, but The Outpost is a very observable example of this. There are many historical examples, Dien Bien Phu comes immediately to mind. I鈥檓 not trying to denigrate the marksmanship of either side, but it is true that when you are shooting upward at a target your range and energy of your rounds will be reduced. Conversely, when shooting downhill, the same rounds will be effective to a little better distance and, perhaps, more importantly, they will meet their targets with a bit more force. This is just physics. If this somehow is invalid, I鈥檇 welcome someone to explain to me why and how my reasoning is flawed. Thanks.
 

Registered
SA precision loaded
Joined
169 Posts
Ok, maybe I just flunked basic science but don鈥檛 both gravity and air density affect bullet trajectory? And there are is the concept of defilade fire. Many might mock me for referring to a movie, but The Outpost is a very observable example of this. There are many historical examples, Dien Bien Phu comes immediately to mind. I鈥檓 not trying to denigrate the marksmanship of either side, but it is true that when you are shooting upward at a target your range and energy of your rounds will be reduced. Conversely, when shooting downhill, the same rounds will be effective to a little better distance and, perhaps, more importantly, they will meet their targets with a bit more force. This is just physics. If this somehow is invalid, I鈥檇 welcome someone to explain to me why and how my reasoning is flawed. Thanks.
It has to depend on how far you鈥檙e shooting. In The Outpost, the enemy was what, 150 yards? Less?

I can鈥檛 imagine that distance has much effect on bullet energy. Throwing a baseball? Yes. A bullet? I dunno.

The biggest factor is gravity. How much time does gravity have to pull the bullet to earth? It鈥檚 a split second either way.

I agree that there鈥檚 not much difference between SHOOTING downhill or uphill. You鈥檙e still firing along the hypotenuse (the long side) of that right angle triangle. At least inside a few hundred yards.

Now FIGHTING uphill vs downhill is entirely different, even with swords. Of course you want to have higher ground.

Sidenote: medieval castles always had spiral stairs that wound up to the right, so a right-handed defender had the advantage in a sword fight.
 

Registered
Joined
168 Posts
Gents,

I'm questioning the need for the 6.5 X 51mm over the 7.62 x 51mm. Most engagements are under 300 yards and, if longer, I would think the .308 could do the job without costing $2.00+ per round. Am I missing something here? I put this in the same category as the F-35. What do we really need?

Inquiring minds, etc...?

Wes
What's really needed doesn't enter into it. You have to add Generals into the mix. They like new, shiny things and they have, pretty much, a blank check. For years, Air Force brass has been trying it's best to replace the A-10. Doesn't matter it's the best at what it does, it's not pretty, shiny, or mach 1 fast. 6mm has been the current flavor of the month for civilian long distance shooters for some time now. Pretty sure that weighs in. That, and whenever the next generation of Generals, (and Admirals), take over, they have to put their own thumb print on things.
 
  • Like
Reactions: nf1e and Kopper

Registered
M1A SOCOM 16
Joined
55 Posts
It has to depend on how far you鈥檙e shooting. In The Outpost, the enemy was what, 150 yards? Less?

I can鈥檛 imagine that distance has much effect on bullet energy. Throwing a baseball? Yes. A bullet? I dunno.

The biggest factor is gravity. How much time does gravity have to pull the bullet to earth? It鈥檚 a split second either way.

I agree that there鈥檚 not much difference between SHOOTING downhill or uphill. You鈥檙e still firing along the hypotenuse (the long side) of that right angle triangle. At least inside a few hundred yards.

Now FIGHTING uphill vs downhill is entirely different, even with swords. Of course you want to have higher ground.

Sidenote: medieval castles always had spiral stairs that wound up to the right, so a right-handed defender had the advantage in a sword fight.
150 yards? Not sure where you are getting those distances from. In my estimations, the COP itself was over 100m from the TOC to the front checkpoint. The village was noted to be about 400m outside the wire and the switchbacks ran up the hill by the village. Certainly, once the outpost began to be overran, the distances were much closer in, in some cases, inside of 50m. But then that only leaves guesstimation instead of scientific accuracy. The only known-distance shot that I found was listed as being in excess of 300m
 
  • Like
Reactions: nf1e

Registered
SA precision loaded
Joined
169 Posts
150 yards? Not sure where you are getting those distances from. In my estimations, the COP itself was over 100m from the TOC to the front checkpoint. The village was noted to be about 400m outside the wire and the switchbacks ran up the hill by the village. Certainly, once the outpost began to be overran, the distances were much closer in, in some cases, inside of 50m. But then that only leaves guesstimation instead of scientific accuracy. The only known-distance shot that I found was listed as being in excess of 300m
I watched the movie. Didn鈥檛 research it.
 

Registered
Joined
19 Posts
Ok, maybe I just flunked basic science but don鈥檛 both gravity and air density affect bullet trajectory? And there are is the concept of defilade fire. Many might mock me for referring to a movie, but The Outpost is a very observable example of this. There are many historical examples, Dien Bien Phu comes immediately to mind. I鈥檓 not trying to denigrate the marksmanship of either side, but it is true that when you are shooting upward at a target your range and energy of your rounds will be reduced. Conversely, when shooting downhill, the same rounds will be effective to a little better distance and, perhaps, more importantly, they will meet their targets with a bit more force. This is just physics. If this somehow is invalid, I鈥檇 welcome someone to explain to me why and how my reasoning is flawed. Thanks.
Re, shooting Up or Down hills, basically Bullets "don't recognize" Angles; just Horizontal.
Looking at my rough Diagram, you'll see that all the shots from the Center Dot are equidistant to the Circle. But since again Bullets only know Horizontal, you'll see that the Up/Down Shoots are actually a shorter Distance than the Horizontal, when a Vertical (Blue) Line is drawn between them.
IOWs, when shooting up or down; account for the Horizontal Distance & not the direct Line of Sight might measure.
 

Attachments

Registered
Joined
1,946 Posts
FWIW... here is informative video concerning the M5.

IMHO , it answered a lot of my questions concerning the ammo, rifle , and longevity.
 
81 - 100 of 107 Posts
Top