[art luppino]

Recently completing a long accuracy test involving the use of a button vs the M2 neck expander die, the M2 neck expander die proved superior in both my M1A's.

These two M1A's have GI NM standard wt. barrels of different manufactures.. Both rifles have had some modifications, a careful record has been kept indicating the tests results. Over 500 rounds have been fired with the most accurate load found up to date. Federal cases and Fed 210M primers were used with a 155 gr. SMK on top. Cases were fully prepped.

This is not meant to encourage an argument, but rather to pass along my findings. Additional information includes, neither rifle has a unitized gas system or reamed flash suppressor, both have free floating hand guards. Best regards, Art

 

[sac troop]

Art are you referring to the Lyman M die?

 

[art luppino]

The Lyman M die

Art are you referring to the Lyman M die?

Yes, I am referring to the Lyman M expander die..

 

[Phil “Murphy” McGrath]

Art, check out my post from back in Feb, "The neck or the pain in it"

 

[D308FAM]

Most sizing dies will produce minimum or no TIR necks IF the necks have no wall inconsistencies to begin with AND if the expander ball is removed from the die.
....
If the expander assembly is left in there is the possibility of either it being in misalignment with respect to the center of the die OR having it catch on the neck/shoulder junction or the neck and in that way pull the neck out of line as it is pulled through.
....
If the cases are resized with no expander use and then the necks are sized with a mandrel like an “M” die or something like a Sinclair expander die body with an appropriate mandrel THEN the misalignment is not present as the cases tend to self-center as the mandrel enters and there is no tendency to catch as the mandrel is withdrawn.
.....
While using a mandrel to expand case necks works well it does add an extra step to the reloading sequence and some reloaders will not accept this extra step. Also, there are often no enough stations in a progressive reloader or the stations cannot be resequenced to allow mandrel expanding as a separate step so using a mandrel to set case neck ID is pretty much limited to non-progressive loading techniques.
....
To use High-Power competition as an example I think I would consider mandrel expanded necks for the 600 yard or longer yard lines as I think it would significantly increase the number of low TIR rounds per batch and help improve the efficiency of creating long-range loadings that do not have high TIR issues to deal with.
This is a good thread to introduce the idea of using mandrels to expand necks as an accuracy enhancement technique.

 

[ppcshooter1]

I'm kinda new at reloading for accuracy so bear with me please.

Are you saying to decap, clean up the primer pocket and hole, clean the cases, resize without an expander, then expand the neck with the M die, prime, add powder, insert and seat the bullet and crimp?

Marty

 

[nicholst55]

I'm kinda new at reloading for accuracy so bear with me please.

Are you saying to decap, clean up the primer pocket and hole, clean the cases, resize without an expander, then expand the neck with the M die, prime, add powder, insert and seat the bullet and crimp?

Marty

That's essentially what he's saying, and I think a lot of long-range shooters already do this. On a Dillon 550, for example, you can size first (some use a single stage press for this), then either switch to the Dillon or swap tool heads to one with the powder measure and seating dies. Prime and expand the neck at station 1, then the sequence is the same as normal.

 

[Bamban]

Here is what I do on the 650 set up dedicated for sizing only.

Station 1 - Decap with cheap Lee Universal Die
Station 2 - Body Die
Station 3 - Initial Neck Sizing with Bushing Die\
Station 4 - Full lenght and final nexk sizing with bushing type die
Station 5 - Expander Taper die, actually using cheap Lee die with the decapping pin cut off and the die and mandrel set up so the necks of the cases do not touch the neck sizing poriton of the die. I have different mandrels polished down to the desired diameter specific to the cases according to their neck walls.

Yes, I do 2 step process to size the neck plus the final step in station 5.

The whole process will be too cumbersome on single stage press, I would not do it myself.

 

[ppcshooter1]

Thanks guys!. I'd like to ask you for recommendations in dies and other equipment but I don't want to hijack Art's thread so I'm starting one of my own in the Ammo sub forum.

Marty

 

[ppcshooter1]

Art has given his blessing for me to ask my questions in this thread so I'm going to copy and paste the posts from there. Here's my original post:

"I was reading Art's thread on improving accurate ammunition, Improved accuracy. While I understand the gist of it I'd like recommendations for equipment. I have a Dillon 550b that I've reloaded pistol ammo on and a single stage that I've owned even longer that I've loaded plinking .223 on with Lee dies. I'd like to use my presses to their utmost. Bamban stated some of his equipment in Art's thread. I didn't want to hijack it so I'm starting this one. Please give me the equipment you recommend and why."

TIA,
Marty

 

[ppcshooter1]

RAMMAC's response:

"I have a preference for Redding dies and the Sinclair benchrest single stage press ( http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pi...enchrest-Press ) for my accuracy ammo.

I've use RCBS, Lee, and Hornady dies and the Redding dies are just more consistent and have less slop in them. The press is small enough to be portable and it's built to tighter specs than most other presses. All these things result in cartridges that have very little run-out and are more accurate. I can throw my reloading equipment in to an egg crate, take it to the range, and build ammo on the spot. At home it doesn't take up a lot of bench space.

For building general use ammo, I'd stick with the Dillon or go with an RCBS progressive press. Hornady isn't quite as good as either of those presses but their quick change system for switching out the dies is handy."

 

[ppcshooter1]

Me again:

"Failed to mention the single stage press is a Hornady that I've had for about 20 years and it was used when I got it. Although the Sinclair looks nice and appears bulletproof I need to concentrate on other equipment. I'm in Nursing School and building on the equipment I have is the financial route I have to go. After I get my license and get a job, then I might look into replacing the Hornady press."

That's all of them. If there was an easier way to do it, I don't know it.

Marty