[Andyw328]

is there any reason (specifically mounting the EOtech halfway onto the RIS II rail) that this wouldn’t work, in theory? Because I’m pretty dang excited about it. It didn’t make sense to have it as the primary optic on this rifle. But as a backup for longer shots ? It works wonderful in reverse (45 canted dot with a higher magnification primary optic). Is there any reason this shouldn’t work on paper, having a 3x prism on a 45 degree canted mount ? It feels excellent as far as wielding it and eye relief. The only thing crossing my mind is whether it’s ok to Mount the EOtech so far forward. I’m gonna put a few hundred rounds through it in the morning and see how the zero holds (on both). I’m a little excited.

 

[Andyw328]

Scratch that. I found the room by moving the irons back. The EOtech is now firmly off the handguard, and is connected directly on the rail directly above the chamber. Boy oh boy. I cannot wait.

 

[Jackofalltrades03]

I don't understand the purpose of 2 red dots on a pistol. If you're saying one is zeroed for up close and personal and the other is for ? 100 yd+, ya might want rethink pistol IMHO

 

[Andyw328]

One is a 1x holographic, one is a 3x fixed magnification prism.
So for instance I can hit 12x18 targets out to 300 yards fine w the EOtech. But now with the 3x on the side, much more precise shot is suddenly in reach than just “minute of man”. I’m about to go see how it works

 

[nf1e]

Isn't 300 stretching it's capabilities just a bit?

 

[MuppetMeat4Me]

I've seen similar on videos with a LPVO on top, and a dot offset, which I guess is kind of similar.

I see the logic to it. I can't think of a reason not to. Have fun, let us know how you like it.

 

[anthonypd]

Why stop there?

 

[gevarm96]

Isn't 300 stretching it's capabilities just a bit?

Personally I've had no problem hitting bad guy sized targets at 300m with my 10.5 & thats with irons. I get 2750 fps with M855A1. While not as fast as a carbine or rifle length barrel, you don't lose nearly as much with a pistol as you'd imagine & it still shoots decently flat.

With even a little magnification I'd wager hits at 400 or maybe even 500 wouldn't be too hard if ya know what you're doing.

 

[Andyw328]

Isn't 300 stretching it's capabilities just a bit?

I use a 25/300 zero on most of my optics, and uh, I mean ballistically, yes. You’ve already taken a hit with the 10.3” barrel. [edit: for clarification and to make sense regarding my post after this one talking about how you don’t take as much of a hit as people think, that’s true, but by the time it travels to 300yds, it’s likely traveling quite a bit slower. That being said, not slow enough that you’d be a fool to expect it to save your life or attempt it to] 300 is probably about as far as it’ll go before experiencing extreme drop. Idk that for a fact as I haven’t had access to a range with confirmed distances beyond 300. But I can tell you that a mk18 with an EOtech will hit 12x18 targets at 300 just fine. I’m not saying it’s the ideal situation, but it will poke holes in things at that distance, with more than enough accuracy to hit a torso. 12x18 is like … a fairly small torso. Haha.And it handles exactly like the inverse of my socom, which has an LPVO, then a 45 degree canted red dot. Mostly your gonna use the LPVO, but if you have it set to 6x and something comes up close, no time to change the magnification baxk down to 1x, the 45 degree canted dot is literally just the slightest turn of the gun away from full and easy use. So this is even easier, frankly. You’re shooting at 1x, and you want to really get precise, or just see something more clearly? The 3x is right there, milliseconds away. Zero it the same as the EOtech and it’ll have the exact same holdovers, and the reticle on the prism is specifically made for 5.56. I’ll post some 100yd groupings in a bit

 

[Andyw328]

I've seen similar on videos with a LPVO on top, and a dot offset, which I guess is kind of similar.

I see the logic to it. I can't think of a reason not to. Have fun, let us know how you like it.

That’s actually literally what’s on my socom II

 

[Andyw328]

Personally I've had no problem hitting bad guy sized targets at 300m with my 10.5 & thats with irons. I get 2750 fps with M855A1. While not as fast as a carbine or rifle length barrel, you don't lose nearly as much with a pistol as you'd imagine & it still shoots decently flat.

With even a little magnification I'd wager hits at 400 or maybe even 500 wouldn't be too hard if ya know what you're doing.

people really misunderstand 5.56 ballistics out of short barrels. It’s true that something like a 7.5” fairly anemic, but those next 3-4” to 10.5 or 11.5 are some of the biggest velocity gains, proportionately, that you’ll find in the world of barrel lengths and projectile speed. You go from about [email protected] 7.5”, to around 2700-2800 at 10.5 like you said, and then 11.5” will get you another 100fps or so. Considering that the trade off from a much longer barrel that is basically unusable in cars and much more difficult indoors is only a few hundred feet per second less than the absolute high end you’re going to achieve of 3200fps with a 20” barrel, or more like 3000-3050 with a 16” which is what most people have, I’d say the shorter barrel is WELL worth the trade. Especially since we all presumably have m1a’s slung over our backs while using these little baby AR’s, eh? 😂

 

[nf1e]

Personally I've had no problem hitting bad guy sized targets at 300m with my 10.5 & thats with irons. I get 2750 fps with M855A1. While not as fast as a carbine or rifle length barrel, you don't lose nearly as much with a pistol as you'd imagine & it still shoots decently flat.

With even a little magnification I'd wager hits at 400 or maybe even 500 wouldn't be too hard if ya know what you're doing.

Wasn't questioning the ability to get the bullet to reach 300 yds, I was wondering what effect it would have on and organic target at that range. I can hit paper target past 300 with a 22 lr.

 

[nf1e]

I use a 25/300 zero on most of my optics, and uh, I mean ballistically, yes. You’ve already taken a hit with the 10.3” barrel. [edit: for clarification and to make sense regarding my post after this one talking about how you don’t take as much of a hit as people think, that’s true, but by the time it travels to 300yds, it’s likely traveling quite a bit slower. That being said, not slow enough that you’d be a fool to expect it to save your life or attempt it to] 300 is probably about as far as it’ll go before experiencing extreme drop. Idk that for a fact as I haven’t had access to a range with confirmed distances beyond 300. But I can tell you that a mk18 with an EOtech will hit 12x18 targets at 300 just fine. I’m not saying it’s the ideal situation, but it will poke holes in things at that distance, with more than enough accuracy to hit a torso. 12x18 is like … a fairly small torso. Haha.And it handles exactly like the inverse of my socom, which has an LPVO, then a 45 degree canted red dot. Mostly your gonna use the LPVO, but if you have it set to 6x and something comes up close, no time to change the magnification baxk down to 1x, the 45 degree canted dot is literally just the slightest turn of the gun away from full and easy use. So this is even easier, frankly. You’re shooting at 1x, and you want to really get precise, or just see something more clearly? The 3x is right there, milliseconds away. Zero it the same as the EOtech and it’ll have the exact same holdovers, and the reticle on the prism is specifically made for 5.56. I’ll post some 100yd groupings in a bit

Thank you Sir. I just have a hard time considering the 5.56 as a serious rnd even coming from a full length rifle. Guess I am just a 6.5 and .308 sort of guy.

 

[deuceguy]

Wasn't questioning the ability to get the bullet to reach 300 yds, I was wondering what effect it would have on and organic target at that range. I can hit paper target past 300 with a 22 lr.

Art, I often use WebMD for my medical knowledge and debate experienced doctors regularly. 😂

 

[Andyw328]

Wasn't questioning the ability to get the bullet to reach 300 yds, I was wondering what effect it would have on and organic target at that range. I can hit paper target past 300 with a 22 lr.

For what it’s worth, SF dudes use them often. With the right ammo, I’m sure it does the trick just fine. Especially when they’re running suppressors that are effectively acting as extra barrel length to an extent. But even when they aren’t, the idea is still that it pokes holes in people and makes them duck down. I do have a friend who made it through BUDS and has travelled the world kicking doors and killing people for the bankers, but he can’t go into detail about any of the stuff he does, beyond vague suggestions that things get crazy and the US does a lot of things in a lot of places you don’t hear about in the news.

One advantage we have as civilians with rifle caliber guns w short barrels is the ability to use hollow points! I’d wager a 68 or 75gr boat tail hollow point at 300yd would be a really bad time for whatever organic target got hit

 

[Andyw328]

Thank you Sir. I just have a hard time considering the 5.56 as a serious rnd even coming from a full length rifle. Guess I am just a 6.5 and .308 sort of guy.

I understand the sentiment, but you gotta admit it’s killed quite a few people. And not in the same way “yeah so has a .22lr”. I mean in gunfights against people armed with ostensibly bigger calibers. That being said, I like .308 a lot too! But there’s something about the low recoil, ability to really throw out fast and accurate follow up shots, have more trigger pulls per
Mag, etc. The seriousness of 5.56 as a round comes from a bunch of advantages that aren’t direct kinetic energy, where the .308 beats the brakes off it with literally twice the energy and roughly twice the effective engagement distance.

although in all seriousness, I’ve heard stories, from people witnessing it firsthand, of confirmed kills with m4’s at 1400yds. Essentially lobbing them like mortars, with a spotter correcting them. If I didn’t know theguy telling the story fairly well, and didn’t respect him deeply (the guy is what you call a serious man, and a well of knowledge), I’d think it was tall tales.
This isn’t to say “look 5.56 can do what .308 does!” Because it can’t. Just that essentially all calibers are, on some level, serious enough to take lives.

I completely respect your preference
For “full power” calibers though. Love em

 

[gevarm96]

Wasn't questioning the ability to get the bullet to reach 300 yds, I was wondering what effect it would have on and organic target at that range. I can hit paper target past 300 with a 22 lr.

Ah okay. Welp I have not “been there or done that” but I know looking at ballistic tables & watching gel tests with M855A1 even at lower velocities I'm not gonna volunteer to stand in front of it. M262 is supposed to be great out of short barrel also.

 

[brianns]

I don't think suppressors are adding to velocity like extra barrel length does. Double check that thought.

 

[nf1e]

Just funing boys. Developed a severe dislike for the plastic guns in 1967 and 1968 which I have never overcome. Then I read about guys with M4s getting their butts knocked by little skinny guys with a PTR.
Only makes sense to question.
And yes, I have my share of ARs. Just don't trust them with my life under most conditions. As a PDW they hit the spot nicely.

 

[96coal449]

Thanks for sharing. Looking forwards to seeing your debut with the little tickler.
I mean that in a funny way .... 5.56 ain't no joke. I love the 77gr pills.

Nice post count BTW. I hope you stick around so we can continue to get to know you and vise versa.
Excellent bunch of guys here.