M14 Forum banner
1 - 20 of 140 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
6,368 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We all know them. They’re the ones on the internet that can shoot one MOA, “all day long.”

Here are the targets for NRA High-Power Rifle Competition:

Wheel Sports equipment Font Circle Precision sports


Font Automotive design Circle Recreation Wheel


Font Rectangle Circle Pattern Recreation


With all of these people who “can shoot 1 MOA, all day long,” why do we not see more 500-50X scores at matches? Okay, maybe 490-40X, because standing offhand is hard.

I don’t think all of the internet 1 MOA shooters are telling the truth. :cautious:

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

From Accuracy to Inaccuracy . . .

The specification accuracy for an M4A1 Carbine is that ten shots will be fired and the extreme spread of those ten shots will be less than 5.6 inches at 100 yards. Or, more simply: 5.6 MOA. With the M14 was an extreme spread of 6.1 inches, but later tightened up for a figure of merit (FM) that would be 3.2 inches. The FM is just the average of the extreme vertical and the extreme horizontal spreads.

My god! How can we issues such an inaccurate things? 6 MOA? 5.6 MOA? The horror, the horror, the horror . . .

Well, let’s say we have one of those super talented shooters that can actually shoot a 500-24X on an NRA National Match Couse, and he was issued one of those horrible 5.6 MOA carbines, how bad would he do?

Assumptions: The shooter never makes an aiming error at the ten ring, and the distribution across the maximum dispersion (5.6 MOA) is normal and that 2 standard deviations falls inside out 5.6 moa limit.

Based on the size of the 10 ring (in MOA), how it compares to the 5.6 MOA, and the percentage of bullet fall in each standard deviation, you get:

For a National Match Course of fire with 50 rounds and maximum of 500 points, our expert shooting with a 5.6 MOA Carbine would probably* shoot a 470 plus or minus ten points, That’s not bad.

If we go back to the early 1960s and give another expert marksman one of those 6.0 MOA M14s and let’s see (statistically) how he should do on the old “A”-course.

The “A” Target has a black filled 5 ring (highest score) 12 inches in diameter and is used on the 200 and 300 yard line.

The “D” Target is a human outline filled with black 19” at the shoulder and 26” tall, this is also valued at 5. This target is used for the 300 yard prone rapid string.

The “B” Target has a black filled 5-ring 20 inches in diameter.

Stage 1 - 10 rounds, standing, Off-hand, slow fire, at 200 yard at an A-Target, 12 inches is 6 MOA so 50 points is possible.

Stage 2 - 5 rounds, sitting, slow fire at 300 yards at an A-Target. 12 inches is only 4 MOA, so statistically you will average 24 points.

Stage 3 - 5 rounds, kneeling, slow fire at 300 yards at an A-Target. Again, 24 points.

Stage 4 - 10 rounds, prone slow fire at 500 yards at a B-Target. The 20 inch 5-ring is again only 4 MOA, so statistically 48 points.

Stage 5 - two magazines of 5 rounds, standing to sitting, rapid fire at 200 yards at a D-Target, (see below).

Stage 6 - two magazines of 5 rounds, standing to prone, rapid fire at 300 yards at a D-Target. The black silhouette of the D-Target is 19 inches wide, the height is 26 inches, with the ‘head’ being about 7 inches, so the body rectangle is 19” by 19”, the 6 MOA dispersion is within the black. If you do your parts, you get all 50 points for these two stages.

Probable score if the shooter make no errors – 246.

That will get you that Expert badge.

So, the Indian can have a pretty bad bow and still kill many deer, if he’s a good Indian.

How good are you?

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
* If he shot an infinite number of matches, his average score would be somewhere in that range.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
3,316 Posts
Lysander, I figure that many of the 1 MOA shooters are "estimating" (not measuring) their performance and they only count a few shots - throwing away anything that they consider to be "flyers". In competition, there is no estimating - the score is exact. Also, every single round (with the exception of sighters) count - no starting over because you didn't like the looks of the first few shots. In addition, all rounds shot for score count - you can't base your score on the best 5 shots.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
293 Posts
This is one of my best targets at 100 yards using the rifle I got from Unkola. I’m proud of this group.

I will say that there are some real accomplished shooters in the forums, but they have essentially dedicated their lives to marksmanship through decades of shooting
 

Attachments

· Registered
Joined
·
3,761 Posts
I figure that many of the 1 MOA shooters are "estimating" (not measuring) their performance and they only count a few shots - throwing away anything that they consider to be "flyers".
I think this is a valid assessment of many "1 MOA shooters". Besides the fact that they only seem to shoot at 100 yards,... from a bench, .........using a Lead Sled, ................on a sunny calm day,................................... and brag about "single-digit SD's". :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,251 Posts
I think this is a valid assessment of many "1 MOA shooters". Besides the fact that they only seem to shoot at 100 yards,... from a bench, .........using a Lead Sled, ................on a sunny calm day,................................... and brag about "single-digit SD's". :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
Wow!!!! Took the words right out of my mouth,,, I'd see these targets now an then and say Why cant I do that!! I want all those "1"MOA guys to sling up in the prone position and sitting and do a rapid and see how you do... Its Hard to do when your close to 70.. But I'll keep trying !!

Carry On !!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
6,368 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I think this is a valid assessment of many "1 MOA shooters". Besides the fact that they only seem to shoot at 100 yards,... from a bench, .........using a Lead Sled, ................on a sunny calm day,................................... and brag about "single-digit SD's". :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
One internet personality opied, ". . . the internet commando shoots 100 rounds at a piece of paper. Then finds the three or five that are the closest together, circles them with a sharpie, and calls that his 'GROUP'."
 

· Registered
Joined
·
12,472 Posts
I havent shot HP for some years but when I did, I was a Master on SR over the course and just a couple matches shy of making High Master when I got too busy with life, kids etc. Shooting very close to 97 percent on a regular basis.
Had younger eyes then and was shooting a lot of matches with a Glen Nelson Super Match.
I quit HP in the early to mid 90's.
It was just taking up too much time.
 
1 - 20 of 140 Posts
Top