[bushell873]

I have what SHOULD be the be all to end all of accurate M1A
2007 Norinco receiver with TRW bolt and guts
Fulton op rod
Kreiger heavy barrel with vortex flash surpressor
Usgi spring with sadlak nm guide
Nm gas system with sadlak piston
Sadlak ti mount with bff nightforce scope
Match chamber 0 thou headspace
Macmillan stock devcon bedded*

I broke the barrel in properly
Have been to the range twice now and I'm getting very inconsistent groups of about 4-5 inches prone/bench/rest.*

I've been using the American eagle dedicated m1a 168 as well as black hills 155&168. I have trouble believing that there is something wrong with my nightforce but it is a possibility. I'm going to swop my leupy m4 off of my bolt gun to check. Can anyone give me any thoughts on where to start to look? She should be a moa shooter but is far from it.

Very frustrated in the north

Thanks for your words of wisdom

Bush

 

[Phil "Murphy" McGrath]

Does your vortex F/H use the front sight gas cylinder lock combo? if so your sight radious is shorter than normal or did you only use the glass, how did you zero your rifle off the bench with a bipod or some other way? was your head in the same position.

The devil is in the details the more info you give the better WE can help.

Mabe your rifle just doesn't like the ammo??

 

[mknopfler]

Take the scope off and zero it in at 100 yards using the irons from a benchrest. Try some Federal GGM 168gn ammo, it is laser accurate in my rifle out to 600 yards or so. If it is your scope, Nightforce does have a lifetime warranty. Good luck !!

 

[SingleSotVictor]

Who built the rifle? I would be giving them a call. Sounds like it could be anything from bad bedding to bad barrel install(or just a bad barrel kreiger is well known though). If it was something little I would still expect 2MOA. Like others said try irons and see what happens, may help narrow it down.

 

[jameslawson71]

Get back to basics...

Take the scope off. Eliminate that variable.

Make sure nothing is loose; i.e. op rod guide, receiver in bedding, gas plug, front band, etc...

Make sure the barrel is not "shot out"... If its over 3000 rounds, dont expect miracles, but a Krieger will usually shoot longer than that depending on what it has been subjected to.

Did you damage the crown/rifling while breaking-in the barrel? If you did, well......GI9

And yes, who did the build? Anyone can put parts where they are supposed to go, that doesn't mean diddly as far as being able to build an accurate rifle regardless of the "make" of the parts.... M14's are no pleasure cruise when building them for accuracy. They need lots of "special" attention-to-detail....

 

[Dave P]

Is the stock front end free to wiggle, without binding, or hitting the HG?

 

[82nd ABN]

One thing to check is to make sure your gas plug is tight. Scope mounts will give the same results if they are loose ask me how I figured that one out.

 

[bushell873]

Follow Up

Took her down to bare bones tonight. The Kreiger Op Rod guide is huge and with two pins is solid as a rock. The barrel is brand new. I removed the flash hider and the crown is fine. I have been using the Otis system for all my guns so nothing has ever been inserted into the crown end. The optics and mounts are same as is the stock to receiver fit. The front band is welded to the gas system so that too is solid. I'll be looking hard at the optics, as you can see its a big Nightforce. I'll see if I can muster up a gas lock with a post and try the old fashioned way.

thanks again for your help

Bush

 

[NoExpert]

Are you adjusting the side focus parallax correctly? Start at infinity and turn it till the reticle doesn't change position on the target when you move your head. If you pass the focus point you need to start at infinity again. This goes for any side focus scope.

Is the mount properly torqued? Are the rings properly torqued?

How did the rifle shoot during break-in?

Are you using a bipod, a sling or just off hand?

Is this your first M14 variant?

Were you drinking coffee or soda before shooting?

 

[jameslawson71]

Good point on the parallax adjustment, NoExpert.

BTW: What range are you getting these 4-5 inch groups at?

I gotta tell yeah, thats one big objective lensed scope for the rifle. Maybe the scope tube is picking up some vibration and its reverberating back into the rifle itself in inconsistent ways. I realize that's a shot in the dark, but thats a big scope for a 14 (not that I know of any real limit), but you'd more likely see something of that size mounted on heavy-class bench guns.

Personally, I think scopes about the size of the NXS 2.5-10x32 are probably a little more appropriately-sized for the rifle, although I have no evidence to back that statement up. Its just that there is a lot less material to pick up and perpetuate unwanted vibration. Things stay "more rigid" so-to-speak...

 

[Bamban]

I gotta tell yeah, thats one big objective lensed scope for the rifle. Maybe the scope tube is picking up some vibration and its reverberating back into the rifle itself in inconsistent ways. I realize that's a shot in the dark, but thats a big scope for a 14 (not that I know of any real limit), but you'd more likely see something of that size mounted on heavy-class bench guns...

It is a shot in the dark. I've used my NXS 5.5x22x56s on any my 14s during deer season and load development with no problem.

The key to scope use in the 14 is the mount.

 

[NoExpert]

Maybe the scope tube is picking up some vibration and its reverberating back into the rifle itself in inconsistent ways.

This got me thinking more... is your hand guard touching the stock, receiver or barrel anywhere (other than at the clip and front band) and is it fixed in place via silicone or the like? I see a gap (small pic, hard to tell) but the hand guard "looks" curved which indicates the ribs weren't trimmed on the inside which can play with accuracy... The op rod guide is parked right under a rib which can really mess with things if the hand guard isn't relieved to clear it. You may just need to fit the hand guard properly. You'll probably need to relieve the middle to rear ribs as well as the ribs on the sides to clear the barrel. I had to do this with my heavy and medium weight barrels.

 

[jameslawson71]

It is a shot in the dark. I've used my NXS 5.5x22x56s on any my 14s during deer season...

Im just trying to open up some other avenues of thought. Like I said, I have no way of backing that statement up. Its just a thought. Yes the mount and the rings are extremely important especially with larger optics...

NoExpert has some good other good ideas...

Is the Vortex on "straight and true"? I have no experience with Vortex flash hiders, but a regular one that is off center will cause problems if its enough for the bullet to even slightly touch the splines.

 

[NoExpert]

The Vortex should be on hand tight, it'll tighten itself as you shoot the rifle (part of the design). If you cranked it down that can screw up accuracy also.

The Vortex is pretty wide so alignment usually isn't an issue but check it for copper streaking just to be sure. Gotta cover all the bases.

I feel like this may be a combination of things going on that can be overlooked...

Oh, is the op rod or op rod guide contacting the stock inside at all? My McMillan M3A had to be relieved for this.

Was the front ferrule opened up to allow more clearance between the stock/front ferrule and gas cylinder?

Does the scope mount contact the stock at all?

Is everything well greased (not oiled)?

How does the trigger guard lock up?

How is the front ferrule to front band tension? Does it take a decent squeeze to separate them? Is it greased?

Not trying to insult your knowledge, just know I've missed mundane details that have made all the difference... Like shooting dusty ammo and having major failure to feeds.

 

[bushell873]

Follow up

The rifle was broken in indoors. While I was wearing a suit the swat gods let me use their range and some federal 168 match to boot. I've been using a bag front and back. Interesting point on the parallax I will follow up. The scope and mount are beyond solid. Groups were at 100yds. Inside doesn't count as it was 25 yds

Thanks for the follow up

bush