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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Since not one configuration is optimized for everything, I"ve decided I need several.

My M1A collection is complete, with everything from short stock to night vision. You can see all 4 of them here:
http://www.m14tfl.com/upload/showthread.php?t=93286&page=3

And, now it's time to start on my LRB M25 collection. I have 2 on order. One is part of the group buy and I should have in about a year. That will be my light weight, patrol rifle. The other is being build now.

This first one will be my heavy, long range sniper version. I should have that within a couple of months, if the stock doesn't delay it too much. It is being build now and has the JAE-100 G3 “WANT IT NOW” PACKAGE with the stock and hand guard in Titanium Grey and the other options in SWAT Black. It will go on my LRB M25 with the Krieger Heavy SS National Match 1:11 twist barrel. This will shoot mostly 168 and 175gr match ammo, depending upon what it likes. With the bi pod in front and the Accu-shot mono pod in back. It has a unitized gas system with titanium plug and otherwise all USGI. I"m going to get a little crazy with the magnification on this and put the U.S. Optics scope
SN3-1750
Base price $2225
T-Pal Left - Standard Option
44mm - Standard Option
EREK 1/4 MOA - 175.00
U.S. #3 1/4 MOA - 45.00
30mm - Standard Option
Matte Black Type III Hard Anodizing - Standard Option
MDMOA - Illuminated - 160.00
11 Pos Rheostat (Red) - 185.00
Lo Profile Housing - Standard Option
Rapid Focus - Standard Option
$2790 *

Haven't decided on which rings and am open to suggestions. I'm almost 64, but I have a training program for long patrol with a heavy weapon. My 3 year old daughter insists I carry her and she is 17 kilo now. If I can carry that on my side all day, a rifle on my back should be easy.

For the second LRB M25, I want to go as light as possible. Am thinking of a SAGE stock here, standard weight Krieger 22" standard weight SS barrel, and U.S. Optics The SN-3 1.8-10X scope. Any suggestions on how to keep the weight down? Hey, NO EXPERT, you have both. What do you think?

Any suggestions from anyone is welcome. Accuracy and reliability is primary for both.
 

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Your heavy setup is going to be in the 20 pound range loaded. Should be a solid shooter. For rings you should look into Badger Ordnance, probably anything above 1.1 inch should be safe. Some USMC SASR rings would be great. Also see about getting the 20MOA extended rail from LRB so you have more elevation adjustment available.

On the light weight setup I have some questions and suggestions... First where are you going to get the barrel? I don't think you can get what you're looking for but I could be wrong. Second, why 22"? I'd go with a standard contour 18" or 18.5" barrel to make it a little more handy and less front heavy but still able to reach out to 800 yards. To cut weight I'd go with the Sage Mod 1 or ALCS-CV, it's about 2 pounds lighter. On the scope, USO's are heavy... You may want to consider something like a NF 2.5-10X32 instead and use some Badger Ordnance MAX-Alloy rings to cut weight. This should put you around 13 to 15 pounds loaded.

Sounds like you'll have some nice setups.
 

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Standard weight Krieger barrels have not been available since the group buy here two years ago. It's quite possible someone might have changed their mind about a project, happens all the time, try placing a WTB ad and you might score one.

All those barrels were chrome moly steel, you can't make a safe M14 barrel in SS standard weight- too skinny.

Another option would be a Criterion standard weight barrel, button rifled instead of cut rifled. GI6
 

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Paul, have you considered mil/mil knob adjustments? Unless you are set on using MOA as your elevation and windage, I would look at going 1/10 mil for windage and elevation.

After reading your posts and looking at your collection (very nice by the way) you seem to be gearing up for a SHTF scenario. IMHO having a reticle that has mil reading and having 1/10 mil adjustments makes a lot more sense. IMHO calculating rage estimation is easier with a Mil reticle and since you spend a lot of time across the glove you should already be a pro at the metric system.
 

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Standard weight Krieger barrels have not been available since the group buy here two years ago. It's quite possible someone might have changed their mind about a project, happens all the time, try placing a WTB ad and you might score one.

GI6
FYI. Keiger still has some barrel left from the buyout in 18.5", didn't ask about the 22". I called them about installing the barrel I got from "No Expert". My rifle is currently sitting waiting for the work to get done. I have 6-8 weeks to wait. Hope to have it back by end of March. It'll be my B-day so I want to party at the range that day & since it's on a Thursday I'll have the range all to myself. dance2
Give Kieger a call & see what kind of deal you could make. Tell them your from this forum. Good Luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
dance2
Your heavy setup is going to be in the 20 pound range loaded. Should be a solid shooter. For rings you should look into Badger Ordnance, probably anything above 1.1 inch should be safe. Some USMC SASR rings would be great. Also see about getting the 20MOA extended rail from LRB so you have more elevation adjustment available.

On the light weight setup I have some questions and suggestions... First where are you going to get the barrel? I don't think you can get what you're looking for but I could be wrong. Second, why 22"? I'd go with a standard contour 18" or 18.5" barrel to make it a little more handy and less front heavy but still able to reach out to 800 yards. To cut weight I'd go with the Sage Mod 1 or ALCS-CV, it's about 2 pounds lighter. On the scope, USO's are heavy... You may want to consider something like a NF 2.5-10X32 instead and use some Badger Ordnance MAX-Alloy rings to cut weight. This should put you around 13 to 15 pounds loaded.

Sounds like you'll have some nice setups.
Yea, I've looked at the NF 2.5-10x32 and I think you've convinced me that is a better way to go for the light SAGE version.

On the JAE, can you explain how the 20MOA differs from the standard extended rail LRB offers. It's still a 1913 right?

I not sure what to do for the barrel of the SAGE version. The medium weight SS National Match barrel is 2.7#. The plan is for this gun to shoot mostly Radway Green 147gr. as I have A LOT of it. I have my doubts about that being able to get out to 800 yards accurately in a 18" barrel. I guess I have more thinking and research to do here. The SAGE build is a long way away yet.

But, I'm running out of time for the JAE build.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Paul, have you considered mil/mil knob adjustments? Unless you are set on using MOA as your elevation and windage, I would look at going 1/10 mil for windage and elevation.

After reading your posts and looking at your collection (very nice by the way) you seem to be gearing up for a SHTF scenario. IMHO having a reticle that has mil reading and having 1/10 mil adjustments makes a lot more sense. IMHO calculating rage estimation is easier with a Mil reticle and since you spend a lot of time across the glove you should already be a pro at the metric system.
I just THINK in MOA. 1 inch at 100 yards. 8 inches at 800 yards. Calculate the range drop and click up. I have a CF1600 laser range finder that has the ballistic tables in it and will compensate for inclination, temperature and atmospheric pressure out to 1.5 km or 1600 yards. I don't like to rely on electronics generally. If you notice on my present collection of scopes on my M1A's it's mostly ACOGs except for the 4x ATN night vision. I can do the MOA calculation in my head quickly. I can do both in my head, but even in the service I never liked the mils.
 

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Decisions, decisions.

Very wise choice for heavy rifle. For the lighte rifle, I would go with the sage collapsable stock, 16 in. barrel, iron sights for quick target aquisition. I would also use AN/PVS4 with no loss zero mounts for switching between night/day sights on this setup.
 

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A 20MOA rail is canted towards the front giving 20MOA more elevation for long range shooting. It's still a 1913 picatinny rail, just gives the scope more usable elevation. I'm having a 20MOA rail reworked for my Sage setup.

When I had my 18.5" in the JAE I could get out to 800 yards pretty well with match ammo. However getting out to 800 yards with surplus ammo even when I had a 22" barrel was a challenge.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
A 20MOA rail is canted towards the front giving 20MOA more elevation for long range shooting. It's still a 1913 picatinny rail, just gives the scope more usable elevation. I'm having a 20MOA rail reworked for my Sage setup.

When I had my 18.5" in the JAE I could get out to 800 yards pretty well with match ammo. However getting out to 800 yards with surplus ammo even when I had a 22" barrel was a challenge.
OK, now I understand. I'll change to the 20MOA on the JAE build. Why wouldn't you go with the TPS Model #30571 30mm rings? Would this be too heavy on the SAGE build?

I think I'm about 3 years away from my big payoff, when I sell my company and retire. Then I'm thinking about a 600 to 800 acre ranch for my country place, so I'll have room to shoot. Not sure where yet. Still spending too much time behind a desk. Still looking for a good place around Dallas to shoot at a distance.
 

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OK, now I understand. I'll change to the 20MOA on the JAE build. Why wouldn't you go with the TPS Model #30571 30mm rings? Would this be too heavy on the SAGE build?

I think I'm about 3 years away from my big payoff, when I sell my company and retire. Then I'm thinking about a 600 to 800 acre ranch for my country place, so I'll have room to shoot. Not sure where yet. Still spending too much time behind a desk. Still looking for a good place around Dallas to shoot at a distance.
Cause there's Badger Ordnance rings and then there's all the others... GI6 Personal opinion of course but there's more than a few people who agree. I had TPS rings on my JAE setup and they're nice, but given the option I'd go with Badger Ordnance if I could. I'm hoping to use the Badger Ordnance M40A5 34mm rings on the Sage with the new USO I'm getting. Have to see if they're tall enough first. If not, BO has other options I can run.

Sounds like you'll have quite a spread, very nice indeed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Cause there's Badger Ordnance rings and then there's all the others... GI6 Personal opinion of course but there's more than a few people who agree. I had TPS rings on my JAE setup and they're nice, but given the option I'd go with Badger Ordnance if I could. I'm hoping to use the Badger Ordnance M40A5 34mm rings on the Sage with the new USO I'm getting. Have to see if they're tall enough first. If not, BO has other options I can run.

Sounds like you'll have quite a spread, very nice indeed.
OK, I have the USMC SASR rings on order, but I may have to temporarily mount with something else until they come in from backorder. I'm learning it's a good idea to have a supply of quality spares so your ready for the next build. I'm more concerned about quality than price. I spend most of my money on guns, women and booze and the rest I spend foolishly.

Seems like I always ask your advice, argue with you about it, and then 90% of the time follow your recommendation. GI8

The SAGE you are recommending is different that the standard SAGE EBR? As soon and I get everything sent to LRB for this build, I'm going to start ordering for the next build.

I need to get some time off when I'm in Texas for some shooting and testing. Last trip I was going to take 4 days and I only got to take less than half of 2 days. Too much research and theory and not enough practice and testing.
 

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The Sage I'm recommending is the Mod 1 version the Navy is using.



It's available from Clyde Armory/Policeguns.com only.

There's also the ALCS/CV



And the standard ALCS



And the NSG ALCS



Also usually only available from Clyde Armory/Policeguns.com

Sage has a new chassis out that's lighter and can accept heavy barrels now too, It's $750 from them direct and most likely only available in black.

The new chassis with the M4 extension tube would be the lightest system available. Personally I like the Mod 1's colour, longer side rails and it comes with the CTR stock and Troy fore grip (which I sold and installed an AFG2). It also has an Vltor storage extension tube so you can remove the CTR and have access to a water tight storage tube, very handy.

Again, all personal opinion. If you're really trying to cut weight then the new chassis with the M4 extension tube and a CTR would be the way to go.
 

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I could be wrong on compatibility, I know they now have a heavy barrel version but not sure what else it'll work with...

Here's some info I got:

[FONT=&quot]2011[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]SIL AGENCY[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]PRICE LIST[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Effective January 2011[/FONT]


EBR CHASSIS STOCK SYSTEMS AND ACCESSORIES

Model
[FONT=&quot]Description[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]MSRP / AGENCY[/FONT]

M14ALCS
[FONT=&quot]M14, EBR Tactical Aluminum Chassis Stock with telescoping butt stock, adjustable cheek rest and butt pad[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]787.60[/FONT]​

M14ALCS/CV

[FONT=&quot]M14, EBR Tactical Aluminum Chassis Stock with M4/M16 style receiver extension tube [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] NO SLIDING BUTT STOCK[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]714.00[/FONT]​

M14ALCS/CVFS

[FONT=&quot]M14, EBR Tactical Aluminum Chassis Stock with fixed synthetic stock and butt pad [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]California compliant[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]712.25[/FONT]​

M14ALCS/CV16FS

[FONT=&quot]M14, EBR Tactical Aluminum Chassis Stock with fixed synthetic M16 style stock [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]712.25[/FONT]​

M14ALCS/PMRI

[FONT=&quot]M14, EBR Chassis with special interface, Magpul PRS2 butt stock and Ergo Grip[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1052.65[/FONT]​

M14ALCS-HB

[FONT=&quot]M14, EBR Tactical Aluminum Chassis Stock with telescoping butt stock, adjustable cheek rest and butt pad ([/FONT][FONT=&quot]fits Krieger, Springfield, Criterion Heavy Barrel[/FONT][FONT=&quot])[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]822.00[/FONT]​

M14ALCS/CV-HB

[FONT=&quot]M14, EBR Tactical Aluminum Chassis Stock with M4/M16 style receiver extension tube[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] NO SLIDING BUTT STOCK ([/FONT][FONT=&quot]fits Krieger, Springfield, Criterion Heavy Barrel[/FONT][FONT=&quot])[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]750.00[/FONT]​

M14ALCS/CVFS-HB

[FONT=&quot]M14, EBR Tactical Aluminum Chassis Stock with fixed synthetic stock and butt pad [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]California compliant ([/FONT][FONT=&quot]fits Krieger, Springfield, Criterion Heavy Barrel[/FONT][FONT=&quot])[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]748.25[/FONT]​

M1GALCS

[FONT=&quot]M1 Garand, EBR Tactical Aluminum Chassis Stock with telescoping butt stock, adjustable cheek rest and butt pad[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]808.65[/FONT]​

M1GALCS/CV

[FONT=&quot]M1 Garand, EBR Tactical Aluminum Chassis Stock with M4/M16 style receiver extension tube NO SLIDING BUTT STOCK [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]735.05[/FONT]​

M1GALCS/CVFS

[FONT=&quot]M1 Garand, EBR Tactical Aluminum Chassis Stock with fixed synthetic stock and butt pad California compliant[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]732.95[/FONT]​

M1GALCS/CV16FS

[FONT=&quot]M1 Garand EBR Tactical Aluminum Chassis Stock with fixed synthetic M16 style stock [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]732.95[/FONT]​

M1GALCS/PMRI

[FONT=&quot]M1 Garand EBR Chassis with special interface, Magpul PRS2 butt stock and ERGO Grip[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1106.70[/FONT]​

MINIALCS/CV

[FONT=&quot]MINI-14[/FONT]â[FONT=&quot] Tactical Aluminum Chassis Stock with M4/M16 style receiver extension tube [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]NO SLIDING BUTT STOCK (Fits only the Semi-auto versions of the Mini14) [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]478.40[/FONT]​

MINIALCS/CVFS

[FONT=&quot]MINI-14[/FONT]â[FONT=&quot] Tactical Aluminum Chassis Stock with fixed synthetic stock and butt pad-California compliant (Fits only the Semi-auto versions of the Mini14)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]473.28[/FONT]​

MINIALCS/CV16FS

[FONT=&quot]MINI-14[/FONT]â[FONT=&quot]Tactical Aluminum Chassis Stock with fixed synthetic M16 style stock [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](Fits only the Semi-auto versions of the Mini14)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]773.28[/FONT]​
 

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M14ALCS/CVFS-HB

[FONT=&quot]M14, EBR Tactical Aluminum Chassis Stock with fixed synthetic stock and butt pad [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]California compliant ([/FONT][FONT=&quot]fits Krieger, Springfield, Criterion Heavy Barrel[/FONT][FONT=&quot])[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]748.25[/FONT]​
Sweet! I want it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Well, my heavy JAE is pretty well set and all is ordered. But, I'm still debating what to do on my Sage light build in a lot of areas, but I still have time. I am thinking about calling Kreiger as seeing if they can cut the medium national match in SS to 18.5 inches and redo the crown. If not maybe I just live with the extra weight of the 22". I really prefer stainless. I still can't decide on the Sage between mod1 and standard ERB. I've decided on the NightForce with zero stop, but not sure about the reticle. I think the NP-R2 reticle. But, how do I specify the enclosed turrets?
 

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So which model would be compatible with a Springfield Medium contour; a standard or heavy barrel configuration stock? I don't know why manufacturers don't post what a product weighs in the specs. Just how much lighter is the lighter chassis compared to the standard chassis?
 

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If Krieger still has some of the 18.5 inch barrels from the group buy I did I would be surprised. If they actually do I can't think of a better barrel for your short build. Sounds like you have your heart set on a sage type stock but I will be that guy that suggest something else to toss a monkey wrench into your thought process. We all seem to have our perfect build up in our heads and hear is a shot of my idea of a light weight rifle.
I am taking my short action M25 and dropping it in one of these




Spec's are heavy contour 18.5 cm 1/10 Krieger barrel, rear lugged M25, GI everything except sadlak tin piston and spring guide, McMillan MFS-14 folding stock w/MP CTR butstock, milspec grip pod flush cups 10 inch tri rail ect ect
Once it's bedded and scoped I can't see this not reaching out to 800 yards with BH 175 gr bthp. Its actually chambered for that round. I have to thank you for the thread I am going to box this puppy up and go to ups this afternoon. I keep putting it off. I am going to send it to McMillan for bedding.
Here is the action your talking about for your heavy build in a McMillan M3Aadj stock

Bedding isn't for everyone I know.
 

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The general consensus is if you run a medium barrel get the ALCS, it's 2 pounds heavier on the rear end and will help balance the rifle.

If you run a standard weight barrel you can run either ALCS or ALCS/CV since either should balance pretty well.

When I shoot my barrel out I'm going to a standard weight 18" or 18.5" barrel. Probably one of the Criterion chrome lined barrels from LRB.
 
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