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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Trying some handloads tomorrow. I've loaded handgun successfully, but not much luck with rifle cartridges yet.
Recipes: All LC brass and Winchester Lg rifle primers. Trim 2.005, OAL 2.8. Scout rifle, shimmed, sadlak guide rod, GLFS.
Shooter- Mediocre to good depending on the day. Take a look, predict, suggest. Really if they all feed and go the right amount of bang I'll call it successful.

Imr 4064
41, 41.2, 41.5
168 smk

TAC
39.5, 40, 40.5
168 SMK

IMR 4064
39.3, 39.8
175 SMK

TAC
39.5, 40, 40.5
175 SMK
 

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Trying some handloads tomorrow. I've loaded handgun successfully, but not much luck with rifle cartridges yet.
Recipes: All LC brass and Winchester Lg rifle primers. Trim 2.005, OAL 2.8. Scout rifle, shimmed, sadlak guide rod, GLFS.
Shooter- Mediocre to good depending on the day. Take a look, predict, suggest. Really if they all feed and go the right amount of bang I'll call it successful.

Imr 4064
41, 41.2, 41.5
168 smk

TAC
39.5, 40, 40.5
168 SMK

IMR 4064
39.3, 39.8
175 SMK

TAC
39.5, 40, 40.5
175 SMK
Just a quick look. I noticed the TAC in your recipes does not go down in charge weight when the bullet weight goes up. That is not the usual way to do it. Notice in most of your published rifle data...the charge weight goes down with bullet weight going up, all else being equal.

The 4064 data looks good.

Does the Scout have 18" bbl?
 
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Be watchful with the Winchester primers. If you have one single primer blowout, stop and scrap the batch! Although Winchester did make good on fixing my gun and replaced my remaining primer inventory 10-fold, I won't use them in rifles any more. Pistols and small rifle; sure. But large rifle; nope! I just don't trust their LR primers any more.

Tony.
 

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Be watchful with the Winchester primers. If you have one single primer blowout, stop and scrap the batch! Although Winchester did make good on fixing my gun and replaced my remaining primer inventory 10-fold, I won't use them in rifles any more. Pistols and small rifle; sure. But large rifle; nope! I just don't trust their LR primers any more.

Tony.
I have never had an issue using winchester primers. Until sunday. Had 3 primers fail in my garand. Have 100 winchester primers left ill just throw away.
 

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I have never had an issue using winchester primers. Until sunday. Had 3 primers fail in my garand. Have 100 winchester primers left ill just throw away.
Do not throw them away! Contact Winchester CS! They will repair the damage and replace the primers!

Read this thread...
http://m14forum.com/m14/162899-m14-bolt-face-primer-errosion.html

E-mail Sharon Quirk at Olin. They will have the rounds picked up and reimburse you. They are good people!

[email protected]

Tony.
 

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20 mins of my time is worth more than 2.90
I think you're missing my point. They paid for a replacement TRW bolt and and gunsmithing fees and sent me 5,000 pistol primers to replace the 500 rifle primers I sent them for evaluation. I sent them samples of my handloads. Do not throw away your spent brass with blown primers! They will want them for evaluation.

$350 for a new bolt, $70 to have Ted Brown lap the bolt for me, plus FedEx shipping costs. I literally got my gun fixed and primers replaced at no cost to me.

Your bolt is damaged and they will repair it. Once the pits are there, they won't go away.

Here's what causes the craters....




As you can see, it's not leakage around the primer pocket. It's the primer failing and blowing a hole which causes the scorches. Gas leakage around the seal creates the uniform ring, not the crater.

Here's a better view of the bolt.


If you're using Winchester WLR primers from a few years ago, switch them out. All that damage happened within a year. It was getting very depressing. I switched to CCI and Remington primers and haven't had a problem.

I ran across a batch and I had 3 blown primers in a batch of ammo I loaded so I reduced the powder charge. It kept happening with subsequent lots. I had used that recipe for years and all of a sudden, trip after trip, I was getting blown primers, no matter what powder charge I was using. Once I switched primers, the problem went away.

Tony.


Tony.
 

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Be watchful with the Winchester primers. If you have one single primer blowout, stop and scrap the batch! Although Winchester did make good on fixing my gun and replaced my remaining primer inventory 10-fold, I won't use them in rifles any more. Pistols and small rifle; sure. But large rifle; nope! I just don't trust their LR primers any more.

Tony.
I had same problem with a batch of Wolf LR back first of the year.... 2-3 clicks before bang, if at all. Tryed them in M1, most pierced. Retailer made good on order 5000. Failed to fire was in two Rems and a Savage, and yes they were seated HARD primer pockets uniformed, etc. Hard to resist the price and availability though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks for the input. I'm pretty much back to the drawing board. Multiple failures to eject. Stiff extraction with at least one round out of each group.
Loads were measured with a ohaus 505 calibrated with RCBS check weights.
Trimmed to 2.005 with Forster 3n1 trimmer
Mic'd with mitutoyo calipers.
What do I need to double check
PmC factory posted the best and consistent accuracy. This rifle has never failed with a factory load.
 

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Be watchful with the Winchester primers. If you have one single primer blowout, stop and scrap the batch! Although Winchester did make good on fixing my gun and replaced my remaining primer inventory 10-fold, I won't use them in rifles any more. Pistols and small rifle; sure. But large rifle; nope! I just don't trust their LR primers any more.

Tony.
Same here... I had one burn a nice crater in my 1903A3 bolt. That lot of primers was from 2009. Lots of us use them, just keep a close watch. I won't use Win for large rifle ever again.
 

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You may find good accuracy in a lesser charge weight of 4064 as you listed, which is great so long as you are only shooting at 1-200. You will find different "accuracy nodes" as you experiment with incramental charge increases. I just recently started developing loads with 4064 for .308 and the 175 SMK, and would think you may find a good load with at least 1 grain more than your original post. I don't have my test load data handy, otherwise I would share. I have no experience with TAC.
 

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Thanks for the input. I'm pretty much back to the drawing board. Multiple failures to eject. Stiff extraction with at least one round out of each group.
Loads were measured with a ohaus 505 calibrated with RCBS check weights.
Trimmed to 2.005 with Forster 3n1 trimmer
Mic'd with mitutoyo calipers.
What do I need to double check
PmC factory posted the best and consistent accuracy. This rifle has never failed with a factory load.
You need to put some more powder in them things your ending loads are about right or a little low for starter loads. If you've got your FL die set to where it just kisses the shell holder it needs to go down another 1/8th-1/4 turn. Should be able to feel it contact firmly when you size your brass.
 

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Trying some handloads tomorrow. I've loaded handgun successfully, but not much luck with rifle cartridges yet.
Recipes: All LC brass and Winchester Lg rifle primers. Trim 2.005, OAL 2.8. Scout rifle, shimmed, sadlak guide rod, GLFS.
Shooter- Mediocre to good depending on the day. Take a look, predict, suggest. Really if they all feed and go the right amount of bang I'll call it successful.

Imr 4064
41, 41.2, 41.5
168 smk

TAC
39.5, 40, 40.5
168 SMK

IMR 4064
39.3, 39.8
175 SMK

TAC
39.5, 40, 40.5
175 SMK

I have never used TAC powder so I can't comment on those loads. When dirt was invented, 42.0gr IMR-4064 under a 168/175 bullet in a mil-spec case has been a long standing NM accuracy load. Its reputation for accuracy in a 22in barrel is so well known that if your rifle doesn't like it there is something wrong with it.

Here is the curve ball. Your barrel is shorter and while I think the above load data will shoot well in your rifle, I don't think it will shoot at its best............... YMMV.
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
update

View attachment 49743

View attachment 49744

After restarting from scratch here's what I wound up with. The group with the horizontal dispersion is 168 SMK, 41gr Tac. Need to work on trigger control.

The better group was bulk pack xm80.

The good news for me is they all functioned. Now I can work on shrinking my groups.
Thanks for all the input and suggestions.
 
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