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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Someone asked about PARKERIZING...
The number one PARKERIZING CHEMICALS in the U.S. are from Jeff Owens..
Jeff's dad Vern supplied a lot of chemicals many moons ago to the US NAVY. I personally used his chemicals with Don McCoy for the MATCH M1 GARAND Rifles. There is NO better chemical in the world. I still use it --- after over 30 years ! Yes ...both the gray and the blacker are available. [email protected]
 

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is that email address the contact to get some of these chemicals? Thanks for the info.
I would love to read some of your stories, experiences, and things you learned while working with Mr. Don McCoy, if you care to share them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Since the 1960"s - I SHOT and SHOT ..and SHOT...With a NAVY TEAM and in the early 80's - I went ARMY ...boooo.. No more nice WHITE Uniforms..
Yup , I know .. another day - another dollar. With the ARMY - I shot the M21...M14 MATCH Conditioned. Won State Championship 2 times in the 1980's. Never had enough time to really get involved - and travel.
My Ship -- USS PRAIRIE - won her FIRST BATTLE EFFICIENCY "E" and her FIRST GUNNERY "E"...2 years running...because of my Training the Gunners - and the crew in general... The Commanding Officer ...became a great help after that..keeping up with all the weapons onboard .
With the NAVY - they sent me everywhere - from San Diego I was sent to HAWAII - Philippines ...Washington State - New Mexico... Glad they footed the bill. When my Ship went on her WESTPAC's .. I ran SHIP Weapons Training (ARMORY Chief) (NO - I was not a GUNNERS MATE)- and ran the Botan Rifle Range in the Philippines. Trained MARINES - PHILIPPINE MARINES - NAVY Personnel from other Ship's and Bases. Was a treat for sure. I was constantly hounded by other units and MARINES to help out building M21 and M1 MATCH Rifles.
In San Diego at the old Camp Elliott MARINE BASE - in an old MESS HALL...on stainless steel tables... I helped out with repairing - re-bedding and creating new MATCH M1 Garand Rifles with Don McCoy. ..
For over 40 years I built M1 and M14/M21 Rifles for US Government and for "CONTRACT" Snipers... Latest one in in the Sand Box right now.
I had one to build for some yoyo in Colorado (M1A-MATCH)-- When he threatened me to see it -- it was barely started... I made a mistake and let him see it... I had the stock rough sanded and it looked awful.. Guy blew a gasket and shouted all over the world I had ruined his rifle..sanded it with a rock.. Headspace was set to "my" bolt -- not "his"... So the stuff flew - you couldn't see for a mile or two :)
Long story short..I will NEVER AGAIN let ANYONE see my creation until it is FINISHED. The piece in question is a flawless beautiful rifle. New owners are 2 ex- MARINES - Both husband and wife LOVE it...
Don McCoy gave me a lot of shortcuts and a lot of knowledge on how to do it right - the first time around. It may not look good at the start -- but the finished product is what counts.. a MASTERPIECE
I can pull and rebarrel an M1 in less than 20 minutes... Chambering - if needed - is another 20/30 minutes. An important "shortcut" if you will -- is ...use only a finish reamer - gently - for the final gauge check. Polishing causes some problems with M1 and M14 Rifles... Problems the uneducated on military weapons just have no clue about...
Can you guess what those problems are..??? Come on.....what is your guess....??
Don't be shy...... A Civilian educated ARMORER if you like ----would want his chamber polished...because that is what "THEY" think is correct... BUT -- come on.....still no guess...??? :)
Very simple... In a MATCH/SNIPER MILITARY RIFLE...there are several "soft" spots with myself - and with Don..... A POLISHED chamber - creates MORE "SLAM" of the bolt and op-rod --- back to the rear of the receiver....than a "FINISH" reamer does. The FINISH Reamer -- holds that shell in the chamber just a zilly second longer than the polished chamber -(holding better burning of the charge) and is somewhat easier on the slamming back of the Bolt and op-rod. Sounds stupid you say..?? Hmm.. I have seen it tested with severl different methods - and I can attest to the fact -- that I will NEVER POLISH a chamber in a MILITARY auto/semi auto Weapon... NEVER.. The Civilian GUN Experts can do as they will... Remember -- opinions are like butts -- everyone has one....
 

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I think I remember Don McCoy having an assistant Mike Hendricks I believe, at his shop in San Diego (Santee actually). I think it was late 1990's or so. One of the members with Santa Margarita Gun Club on MCB Camp Pendleton has one of McCoys last Garands.
 

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No question you have years of experience, but not polishing chamber is a well known fact to many quality gunsmiths, be they military or otherwise and as you mentioned, bolt thrust can be excessive in a polished chamber.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
McCoy -- and CHAMBERS

I agree....MOST Gunsmiths agree on the chamber polishing -----BUT , there are Gunsmiths that have NO experience with a GI Rifle...and seem to think they know it all...like the Gunsmith we have here in Colorado Springs that condemned the rifle in my notes....and ..had no clue what he was telling the guy. Guys like him should not own a GI Rifle.....and...he has over 50 M1 Garand Rifles.
Don McCoy and I built an M1 together in the Elliott Mess Hall :) Sounds funny.... Was about 1976 ....I used a laminated stock from Boyd's .... We had plenty of GI stocks - but that laminated stock was a dandy. Last year - I finally sold it to a NAVY Senior Chief -- retired...that is in SERTOMA with me.. All the years I had it...I never fired it. After we finished it - at Elliott -- I test fired it at 200 yards... First 4 or 5 shots were in the 9-10 ...Last 5 were in the X... Fired 2 clips...and that was it.. Never fired it again. Last Garand I built - I lugged -- and ...?? it did shoot well...but....proper bedding as Don showed me -- was better than lugging... Going to Denver Gun Show tomorrow..... Hauling my USMC 1941 to it..
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The lugged rifles are far too hair pulling to create. Yes - I can build a "lugged" rifle from scratch..BUT -- I am not licensed - so will not consider it - Our laws since the late 70's are directed to disarm us all...not to help one another... Is a disgrace to a so called FREE society...which we DO NOT have.. As long as there is a BATF -- we are living in WAR TIME Germany... The elite only can get away with CRIME.... EVERYONE here should write TRUMP and ask that the BATF be dis-banded. We do not need them... We need 2 simple laws......Use a gun in a crime --15 years -- kill someone -- NO doubt who did it..PUBLIC execution within 30 days. Crime as we know it would disappear.. BUT we all know - no one has the guts to do what is right -- they do what can make them money...

A Multi lugged receiver is a very bad idea... VERY .. A single rear lug is all that is needed..
I think I mentioned -- I have double lugged a few -- a waste of time.. Don used the same lugs I do -- they are welded in 4 places -- but there are only 2 lugs. The front one is a nightmare -- a lot of hand fitting...Rear one is simple...Each and every one - takes time ..and WORK....
At Elliott - we only worked with the M1 and the M14.. and - it was in the 1970's...
?? early 80's.. Long range rifles I worked on were at the MCRD - with MARINES.
My 30.338 is one of them.. I also have a 6 m/m and a .556 - .223 heavy match rifle built with the jarheads.. A bad news rifle... A one holer... For a lousy .223 - at 600 yards ....with the heavy remington 700..it is a unreal rifle.
 

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Govt Specs PARKERIZING CHEMICALS

If you are going to state "Govt-Spec chemicals", you should say what exact specification are these chemicals adhering to?

Just about all commercially available Parkerizing solutions adhere to A-A-59267 - "PHOSPHATE COATING COMPOUNDS, MANGANESE OR ZINC BASE (FOR FERROUS METALS)". After all, it is just a "Commercial Item Description", and is almost verbatim the old MIL-P-50003.

DOD-P-16232, MIL-P-16232, and the current MIL-DTL-16232 - "Phosphate Coating, Manganese or Zinc Base", have never specified a particular chemical solution for phosphate coating. All of these specifications delineate a specific resulting coating and specify the treatment and post treatment process.
 
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